Episode 132: Making “Mindful Rehoming” A Thing, featuring Jeanna of Sage Woolens

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that really did unload and repack a ton of belongings and houseplants in the parking lot of an Econolodge in Knoxville, TN on New Year’s Eve. I was delirious, there were a bunch of really drunk dudes beating one another up, then hugging it out, then fighting again while we sorted our possessions. You’ll hear more of the details in this episode!

I’m your host Amanda and this is episode 132. Today’s guest is Jeanna of Sage Woolens. She reached out a few months ago to tell me about a very serious life change on the horizon: she and her husband were leaving the country–moving to Spain–and they were tasked with shedding at least 75% of their belongings. This was no easy task because they weren’t currently living in a little studio apartment together. Rather, they lived in a three bedroom home. So yeah, there was a lot of stuff to rehome. Jeanna didn’t want to dump it all in the donation bin or summon 1-800-GOT-JUNK…she wanted these rehomed items to benefit others, to find new homes where they would be used. So began her odyssey! Today she is going to tell us all about the process, as well as share her own suggestions. And we’ll be talking about our relationships with our stuff and how we can reframe/rethink it all.

This is part of an ongoing series about circularity in our own lives. Over the last few episodes, we’ve been talking about the impact our unwanted stuff has on other people and the planet, especially when we operate within a binary of “donation bin or trash bin” for the things we no longer want or need.

This week I did a lengthy post about the items that thrift stores (for the most part) do not want from us, from sewing machines to medical supplies to alcohol and so on. And to be honest, some people on instagram were very upset with me about this! All of the information I gathered came from a combination of conversations with Dylan and Ryan (who worked for the biggest thrift store chain here in the US) and research into the guidelines provided by other major chains, as well as articles and suggestions by others working in this space.

The thing about what thrift stores will or will not accept is…well, what they will accept is not synonymous with “valuable” or “useful.” And what they will NOT accept is not the same as “useless” or “trash,” well, except for actual trash!

Thrift stores choose not to accept things for many reasons, from the perceived customer demand for a particular item–sewing machines are a great example here…in the past, thrift stores were tragically receiving far too many of these in comparison to how many were actually selling, to the legal liability associated with an item–car seats, cribs, and medical devices are great examples of items that thrift stores tend not to accept because they don’t want to be legally liable for any of the injuries caused by them.

Now, that doesn’t mean ALL thrift stores won’t accept sewing machines, play pens, or crutches…but the big chains generally won’t. And like a lot of retail as a whole, the smaller independent thrift stores–who may accept these items–are becoming scarcer and scarcer, as the large chains have expanded their reach, moving into smaller communities. Furthermore, the independent thrift stores are struggling with all of the other issues facing your average small business: higher rent, shoplifting, declining quality of donations, and increased competition with the large thrift chains for your unwanted belongings.

Knowing that those crutches you used last year when you sprained your ankle can’t be donated can feel infuriating, because now you’re assuming that the only other option is the landfill. Except, guess what? The binary of “donation bin or trash bin” doesn’t actually exist! And thanks to the combination of technology and good old fashioned community, your unwanted stuff can actually have a major impact on someone locally! Years ago, when Dylan was just a little toddler, I was hit by a car while riding my bike. And of course it was a hit and run. As an added bonus, the manager of the retail store that employed me had forgotten to file my health insurance paperwork by the deadline, so I was uninsured for another six months. I couldn’t afford crutches or a boot for my messed up ankle…if I could have gotten those items from a neighbor free of charge…well, my life would have been greatly improved.

In fact, I’m going to go ahead and say this: the donation bin should be your last resort. Because in the world of “mindful rehoming,” we take the time and effort to redistribute our belongings to others who truly need/want them. Yes, it takes time. Forethought. A lot of posting and googling and messaging. But it’s true circularity in action: getting these important items to someone who truly needs them, rather than passing them off to a thrift store that might just send them off to the landfill. Or charge money for these items, putting them out of reach financially for others who are truly in need. And we live in an era where mindful rehoming is easier than ever because most of the options can be accessed through your phone:

There’s your network of social media friends and acquaintances.

Your neighbors via Next Door or your Buy Nothing Group.

Total strangers on Craigslist, Freecycle, or Facebook Marketplace.

And a plethora of mutual aid and community organizations found via a google search.

Yes, mindful rehoming takes more time and advance notice than a last minute trip to the Goodwill, but it’s time well spent.

Jeanna has a lot of great suggestions for you, so let’s jump right into our conversation!

Amanda

Why don’t you introduce yourself to everyone.

Jeanna

So I’m Jeanna and I have most recently been on this journey to rehome my things as we prepare for this very, very big international move, coming up here in the next couple of months. And this is sort of the latest, I guess, aspect, so to speak of kind of this lifestyle shift that I’ve been going through for probably the past 10 years, I’m kind of working away, working myself very gradually away from kind of the typical consumption, consumerism, lifestyle, that is just so part of life here in the US and kind of moving more towards, of slower fashion and just trying not to use up so much stuff quite so fast and recklessly and putting a little more thought into life.

Amanda

Right. And, you know, you reached out to me about, you know, something you’ve been working on, and I thought it was really important for us to talk about, because while you’re gonna talk about like, but you’re re homing a lot of your stuff, right? And we tend to, I mean, you you tell me what you think here, we tend to unburden yourself of staff, even less thoughtfully than we burdened ourselves with it.

Jeanna

Yes, totally.

Amanda

And it’s hard. It’s hard to thoughtfully on on rehome your staff, right?

Jeanna

Yeah, it is, I’ve tried to be aware of how easily things come into my home. We’ve only lived in this house five years, but it is. I mean, it’s the quiet, you know, quite frankly, the, the path of least resistance would be to just like, put stuff in the trash bin that is picked up outside my house every week, where it just disappears, and it goes away. But that’s not really what I what I can, like, live with doing, you know, so I feels like kind of the next best or easiest option is to take it to the thrift store. And that is also just like not really such a great option if you’re wanting to, to kind of a have a lower impact with your with your things. So it becomes really hard, you’re sort of extra burdened with this stuff that you’ve already been living with. When it does come time to part ways with it.

Amanda

It’s true. And in my experience, having just moved across the country a couple of months ago, nothing will make you realize what a burden, your stuff is, like moving. You know, it’s like, then you’re like, why do we have all the stuff? Like I’m angry that we have all this stuff, right? I made some terrible choices that just were not like in this situation? Yeah, yeah, I totally, I feel that like, you know, we’re avid thrift shoppers. We have very little things in our house that were bought new, but we still have a lot of stuff. And when we moved, I could I finally I mean, we’ve moved our whole, like my husband and I have moved a gazillion times in our lives. But for some reason this move felt particularly burdensome. And I think it was because we were living out in an area where the thrifting was so plentiful, that we were able to fill our house, there was so much stuff. And it was the first time moving that I realized or understood why people would be like, I’m just gonna call one 800 got junk and throw my stuff away. Like I never understood that before. And now I was like, I get it. I get why people ditch everything in the parking lot at the Goodwill.

Jeanna

Totally, totally. Yeah, so we have been living in our current home for a little over five years. But it’s a little bit bigger than the house that we were living in before. And we have like had this wonderful sewing room that was just like so full of fabric and scraps and just all these you know, magical things that you require that you love. And there was just more space here than we’d had before. And and you will always I feel like I think this is a true statement for a lot of people but whatever amount of space you have, it seems like you will fill that up. plus like, a little bit more, where everything’s just a little bit too tight. And, like you guys, we are avid thrift store shoppers and street find Oh, hoarders. And yeah, like I had this magical chair, I gave it to my sister in law in preparation for this move, but um, this wonderful chair that was like sitting outside the dumpster at our home in Portland, and I re upholstered it and like, refinished it until like, everything, you know, you’ve had these these things, I feel like, especially things that you choose, that are kind of this one of a kind thing. Secondhand stuff I, there’s, I feel like when you you’re, when this stuff comes into your life, it’s often in this way where it’s like, this is the one shot like I can’t come back tomorrow to the thrift store and find it, this is not going to be sitting out. So that side by the dumpster tomorrow, like I have to just take it now or I’m gonna miss my chance. And it’s free or it’s cheap. And so, you know, there’s so many easy ways to that it like comes into your life. And then there’s just so much of it.

Amanda

Yeah, yeah, it’s true. I mean, I, I find it’s everything means something to us when we bought it secondhand. And so it makes it I mean, you’re stuck with it, right? They can’t explain it, right. But like when we moved, you know, we check. We did don’t eat, like one very small carload to the goodwill of like electronic devices that my husband felt, but I don’t even know what they were. They were his, like, some of his, like, recording equipment for music. And he was like, No, people are going to be really excited about this. And I was like, Okay, I’ll take your word on it. Like, I have no idea. But otherwise, it was like, I don’t know what to do with this stuff. Because we didn’t know a lot of people. And we lived in a rural area where we couldn’t just like put stuff outside like we could in Portland, for example. You know, like, we had to really work hard to rehome the few things that we rehabbed and that meant everything came to Texas with us. So I want to hear about how you knowing that it’s hard to part with these things sometimes because they feel so I don’t know. They just feel different. Right? How did you find new homes for your stuff without you know, abandoning it in the middle of the night in the goodwill parking lot, which I have seen people do okay. I haven’t seen it live in action, but I’ve seen it the next morning.

Jeanna

Yeah, so it was it’s been really hard I have got to say our systems just kind of in the US are not set up well to find new homes for things you know, like I was saying it’s we’ve got like trash bin or you can just offload it at Goodwill. So I did a lot of research online. I looked a lot at like local nonprofits. I’ve been involved with our local mutual aid organization doing like some volunteer mending with their for our mutual aid group. So I had, you know, we I knew that I wouldn’t be able to find a home for through them that group for any survival gear, like we took camping gear, sleeping bags, like headlamps, we have like some canned food that was just in the pantry that was still you know, within its sell by date. So all anything that was like that could be useful for the mutual aid organization went to their weekly distro the distribution. And they know like that, that is a great local mutual aid organizations are, I would say, kind of your first place to consider as long as you are only giving things that people need. Yeah, things like this is like I guess I’ll back up a little bit here and maybe first talk about kind of my my principles, I guess, that I thought about while I was looking for new homes. So first like researching local organizations to find out their needs and only donating what they need. I mean, a lot of these organizations whether it’s a thrift store or mutual aid organization that’s run by just community members or refugee You homing organizations, they are all stretched so thin. And they do not need to be burdened with stuff either because we don’t want to come come to you, I don’t want to feel guilty. Just taking it to the thrift store. So that was one of my big things. I was only only only donating things that people actually need.

Amanda

No skis, or like bombs or, or like random, like bikinis. Like I, I’ve heard this from so many people who, who like work in mutual aid, who are like, yeah, people just like ditch stuff. Like we didn’t need five half use notebooks and like, some like dirty socks. It’s bad. Yeah, it’s really bad.

Jeanna

Well, and, you know, kind of an example of this is that I had contacted one of our local refugee rehome resettlement agencies, and they said that they could use kitchen supplies. And so I took in a couple boxes of kitchen supplies, and I asked the person who was working there, if they would like, just do a quick scan through to make sure everything that I brought was something they would use, and they wouldn’t take our coffee pot because their customers or clients don’t drink a lot of coffee. So that was something that I’m you know, in my brain, I’m like, oh, kitchen stuff. They said that they could use it. But that was something that was not going to be needed by them. So yeah, just please don’t try not to try not to foist your, your stuff on to people who don’t? Who don’t need it.

Amanda

Right, right. And I think, you know, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, re homing your stuff thoughtfully, it does take a little bit more effort and thought it’s not as easy as throwing it in a dumpster. or abandoning it on the side of the road, or I mean, like I, I was at a home improvement store last weekend. Very long story short, we had like a drunk driver run through our front yard and take down our birdhouse. And we needed all the stuff to fix it was it was kind of a really epic project. And something I noticed that they had there now because people are just so looking for a way to get rid of their stuff fast. And conveniently, you can buy these like pop up dumpsters that are basically like enormous, like enormous plastic bags, like the size of a small swimming pool that you put on your front lawn, and you just like you like pop them up, and you fill them with like tons of garbage. And then like you call them and you pay a fee, and they take it away. And I was like, wow, like this is this is where we are, you know, because people, I It’s so easy, and very thoughtless to require things. But the truth is like, it should, it should be thoughtful and difficult to unburden yourself of them. And it should be, it should be difficult to burden yourself with the stuff in the first place. You know, like we’ve gotten so easily, like so accustomed to just things flowing and out of our lives so easily. That that’s how we it was what leads us to having too much stuff.

Jeanna

Right? And we don’t think about, we don’t as often think about the fact that like, once it’s gone from our life, it’s not gone. It’s still. Right, right. There is no a way. Like it’s still somewhere in this world. And it’s, you know, either junking up someone else’s space, or leaching plastics into a landfill or whatever. But it’s not ever really gone. And it’s just like you’re saying, there’s all these convenient systems put in place, which, you know, and they are important systems, because they also take away like, toxic stuff from our homes that like, you know, our sewage and the stuff that is actual garbage.

Amanda

Right, right. I mean, I have often thought like, if we had to go to the landfill with our stuff, whether it was like our weekly trash or like the stuff when we’re moving and actually like, take it out, like load it up, and take it there ourselves and maybe even have to unload it and throw it into the landfill ourselves. We would see a totally different relationship with what we bring in and out of our houses because it’s just too easy. Like even the term throw away. implies that yes, there isn’t a way and that away is that things cease existing. And, you know, like you said, that’s not true, but it’s easy. to I mean, we all know, we know intrinsically, the stuff doesn’t disappear when we’re done with it, right. I like to think that everybody knows that. But we like I don’t know, like, we suspend our disbelief, because thinking about the reality is too painful.

Jeanna

It is. Yeah, and, and it’s just, it’s really overwhelming. And it’s none of our individual faults system in which we exist, right. And, like you were saying it does take a lot more time, and effort and resources to make stuff, leave your home without kind of accessing these, like that path of least resistance, that trash bin that someone else will come pick up, you know, from your front yard. And so I also I think that’s really important too, I really try to recognize as, like, I’ve been going through this process that I do have a lot of privilege to be able to have the time and kind of at least some general background knowledge to know that, hey, there might be some places out in my community that could use these things, I have a truck so I can haul my furniture to you know, the person who took it decided that they wanted off of the Buy Nothing group I was able to, you know, deliver this giant old chair to them. I have again, time is like such a huge resource that I I think that I don’t want to lose sight of the whole process because it is, it is so much more time consuming to track down a new home for every single thing or even every category of things. Rather than just loading it all in to the car if you have a vehicle that’s big enough to go to the thrift store because even there you know is that is a degree of privilege that I kind of, I still kind of want to be aware of that you can put all the things you need to get rid of one one vehicle and and take it to a thrift store. So Right. And then just a lot of the you know, the convenience things in life that that come with extra packaging. Again, there’s there’s it’s not accessible. Not all of these, these systems are accessible to broad, broad swaths of the population. But I also feel like because they do have some of these extra resources myself, it’s it’s been a journey that I’ve chosen to go on. And it has it’s been kind of like a good three months. I kind of started this process about three months before we listed our house for sale. And I still have a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah,

Amanda

I mean, so like how much if you could like estimate by the carload which is a lot of stuff. I guess we have to specify like, what kind of car? How much do you think you have re homed?

Jeanna

Oh, geez. Um, so what we have, we have a three bedroom house. Lonely things? I guess I would say that one. This is kind of an aside, but um, one one good way or like perhaps exercise? You know, you’re talking earlier about? How do you decide how to get rid of something, what really good exercise is to maybe if you don’t have to move across the country or across the ocean, like hypothetically plan a move across the ocean and ask yourself, Is this something I would pack with me to move? I like that, the more miles and maybe you back that up a step and when you are thinking about bringing something into your home? If it’s not a consumable, right, like if it’s not food or like product that you are going to use imminently. Is this something I would want to pack up and move with me to a new state, country, et cetera? And definitely the lesson that I’ve learned on this is going through this whole process is that I will be much more much more cautious about what I do. used to bring into my home because wow. Yeah, three bedroom full of stuff. None of our furniture is coming with us. So all of that has been rehabbed and none of it so far, it’s not all gone. But none of it so far has gone to the thrift store. It’s been kind of a combination of I’ve had really good success with Facebook marketplace

Amanda

in my area and one of my faves actually.

Jeanna

Yeah, you know, I hadn’t really used it until I’m starting this whole adventure. And I’d always like I had always used Craigslist in the past and it’s been a few years since I’ve really sold anything online. But um, I kind of tried Facebook marketplace out for the first time with this and it’s been like i i generally would say it’s been quite a pleasant experience. It’s fairly easy to like get stuff listed. I have had no like, creepy scammy like, let me send you a money order. And

Amanda

honestly, I’ve had such amazing experiences on Facebook marketplace that I forgot that there were scammers on there.

Jeanna

Yeah, I haven’t I have not had a scammer. Those were just like my, the like holdovers from my fears from the Craigslist days.

Amanda

Man. Totally different story. Yeah. Yeah. So

Jeanna

Facebook marketplaces have we’ve gotten rid of a lot of like, weird random stuff, everything from like, a kitchen knife sharpener to like, bicycles and random filing cabinets. And like honey bee keeping equipment, I don’t know, just like, like, my husband has this big shop, like workshop with like woodworking and mechanic stuff and bicycle tools. And so we’ve sold a ton of his tools on there. So that has been kind of, I think, one of the sort of easiest routes. For me. So downside to that. So those are the pros, people, people are generally trustworthy. There are a few people who haven’t shown up, but I don’t get like the weird, creepy scammy stuff.

Amanda

What else are you doing? I mean, how much stuff do you still have left?

Jeanna

Um, mostly now we just have like some bigger furniture pieces and things that are going to that we’re actually moving with us or things that we might say we are going to store a few things. I can also talk kind of about specific categories and where specifically, I found to rehome them, I would say like, if we were to put all the things that were keeping, or that we still have, they would probably comfortably fill like our living room in one bedroom. Whereas before, this was a three bedroom house plus a garage, okay, with like, two bathrooms, you know, full with enough stuff that two people maybe more than enough stuff than two people who live comfortably and like to thrift shop.

Amanda

Totally I understand. I think that would describe like, our level of belongings currently. It’s funny, like, if you’re, if anyone’s listening to this, and they’re like, just like, can’t imagine how someone would have all the stuff. I’m gonna tell you when you shift from living in an apartment to a house. Like, it changes things mean. Right?

Jeanna

Yeah, I will stand by this, people will tend to fill the space that they have.

Amanda

Totally, I think about that all the time, like so we, we moved, we lived in a very small house in Philadelphia, then we moved out to burden hand where we lived in a really huge house. And it felt very empty when we first moved in and it did not feel that way when we left I can tell you and we moved into this house in Austin that it’s a three bedroom house and sure they’re small bedrooms but so I mean, for two people and five cats. It’s a lot of space are plenty of space. And I was like we’re gonna have to get a storage unit like I hate us right now. Like we have so much weird stuff

Jeanna

Yeah, but you love it all and you chose it all to like, part of my life and yeah, and then and then it’s there.

Amanda

It’s there. Yeah, yeah.

Wow, you know, as you were talking about, you know, not wanting to burden others with your unwanted stuff because you’re trying to cut corners basically, right? It made me think of something else that I think is really important. And it’s kind of been something that’s, I’ve been really mindful of for the past year or so that has changed some of my behaviors, which is my approach to giving gifts. Yes, right. So I, a few years ago, one of the last regular Christmases in the world, right? I remember feeling really overwhelmed with all the stuff we did acquired, like in our house that we didn’t need. It’s not that we were like ungrateful for it, but it just just bummed me out. And so we started to shift away from like, exchanging gifts. And even in the past couple years, when it’s been time to give someone a gift, whether it’s because they had a baby, or they got married, or it’s their birthday, or what have you, rather than buying them a thing. I bought them like food, or a gift certificate to do something, or someone to come and clean their house or things like that, like, I didn’t know more stuff, because I feel like it’s not fair. Unless that’s what they want. You know,

Jeanna

it’s a specific thing that someone has asked for. Yes, but gosh, there’s just so many, like gift for the sake of a gift.

Amanda

There’s so much of that. Yeah.

Jeanna

And it’s and a lot, you know, quite honestly, a lot of the stuff that we chose not to move with us was stuff that we’d received as gifts. It’s some, because it’s just, you know, there’s just, there’s so many things and you know, when you’re our culture is just very, I mean we’re, it’s a really nice reason to shop. It’s a really nice reason, a way to show someone that you care about them and that you’re thinking about them and that you’re acknowledging their special event or situation or occasion but it’s also I you know, I completely agree with you absolutely. That’s where we’ve gone to is to like move towards giving. Either something consumable or set like a service or I suppose an experience that isn’t going to be a thing that has to be managed and cleaned and maintained and then eventually disposed of in some way or being home and gifts gifting was really,

Amanda

I think, I mean, I am once again And it’s like you, it’s like a lesson you have to, to sometimes learn the hard way by like having to experience. I mean, this is like a really strong noun, but like the repercussions of the gifts that have come into your life. And for me, I was like, Wait, I don’t want to deal with this stuff anymore. And I don’t want someone else to deal with it too, just because I like them. You know, like, if I like them enough to give them a gift, I like them enough to not burden them with some nonsense. So I just like I, as you’re talking, I was just like thinking about that, because that was another thing that I was encountering, as we were packing up to move. And I was like, Oh, I wish, I just wish we didn’t have this stuff. We have stuff that we love, and we’re never gonna part with. And it is, it feels weird to say that you love stuff that you have. But like, that’s the reality, right? There’s, there’s plenty of other stuff that comes in and out of our lives that we’re so ambivalent about. And I think that’s where the burden of it all comes into play, where it feels like a burden. And it makes you kind of angry that you have it and that you have to deal with it. And I just want other people to have that emotional experience. And that thought without having to actually deal with learning it the hard way, you know what I mean, by

Jeanna

that, you know, we get so much you reach this critical mass of things. And it’s just like dealing with the stuff that that’s not serving you or that you don’t really use or you don’t really love, it kind of puts a damper on being able to enjoy and appreciate the things that you do really love. Because I mean, we are people we are like by nature, collectors of things. And I mean, ever humans have gathered stuff, useful stuff, pretty stuff, just stuff that they like stuff that they need. And like we’re just at this point now where it’s so easy to get so much stuff to choose to bring into your home on your own, to have other people very well intentioned, give you these things. And like there’s just so so so much that it’s hard to even appreciate the stuff that you do want. Because you’re dealing with all of the stuff that you that maybe you don’t necessarily.

Amanda

Yeah. Yeah, it’s a lot. Right. And it’s, I’m, I’m glad that we’re finally having conversations about stuff as as a burden, because I think we all were feeling it sort of intrinsically for a long time. But it’s like we are we are swimming in the sea. We have been since we were born, where stuff is the goal, right? It’s weird.

Jeanna

And, you know, I think like the last two years with the pandemic, there have been like a few different waves. I think during these this time, that’s really kind of brought our dealing with stuff more into consciousness. Just like thinking back to the beginning of the pandemic, when we first went into lockdown and everyone like, what lots of people went through and like Marie Kondo their homes, yeah. Like, got rid of all their stuff. But then, like, we kind of bought new stuff to like, decorate our homes in a way that like, fit us in that moment, since we had to live every minute inside our four walls, you know, kind of this time to sort of like have a fresh start and hook Gosh, talk about like overburdening our, our systems. I think this is something that you talked about kind of not too long ago on the podcast, too, was just like, the piles and piles and piles of stuff at the thrift stores, kind of in the early days of the pandemic before like businesses were able to open back up and kind of start processing through all of that, but you know, and it’s just like, wouldn’t have been so magical if, you know, we can could if we’re getting rid of that stuff, at least not fill the space in quite so rapidly with you know, some

Jeanna

new thing like kind of get to a point where we’re thinking a little bit more about do I need this do I want this why did I feel the way I felt with my staff that made me feel like I needed to purge it and get rid of it and like, Make space or time or whatever? You know, to think about a little more before we just so easily fill back in those spaces.

Amanda

Totally, totally. I man I remember reading about how all of the like, sort of like Home Goods kind of stores or stores that had a home goods department, we’re seeing this amazing surge in business around like, June or July of the first year of the pandemic. And it was because everything had, everybody had thrown everything out and in like March and April, and was like, oh, oh, wait, like we’re still here. And that bummed me out so much like, there, I have had all the waves of emotions about everything you could have an emotion about over the past couple of years. And one thing that I had a lot of anxiety about, actually and 2021 that I don’t have now and 2022. I mean, I still do to a certain extent. But I remember last summer and 2021, thinking that we’d all been through this really intense experience that I know, for me was a life changing as it should have been, right. But I was starting to feel anxious for lack of a better term, that most people had not changed at all, that all of this, like pain and loss and fear, and everything else that we’d gone through, was for nothing, that it had been totally non transformative for everyone else. And that we would go back to buying tons of clothes for no particular reason and purging our house of things, and then immediately re buying new versions of all of that, and I buy like August or September of last year, I had worked myself into this point of like despair, thinking about us going back to bad behaviors. And I think that’s just probably part of the process of figuring out for me, like, you know, what I was going to do next and how I was going to grow as a person. And as a person who wants to help other people grow, you know, I had to go through that first phase of like, is it all for nothing, you know, and I want to believe that we are going to be, we’re going to do better, but I think it starts with all of us, like sharing how to do better, or how we did better or, or how we learned it the wrong way.

Jeanna

I completely agree with that. And I think that, you know, there was just so much that we didn’t know, for the first couple years of the pandemic, and it was just so traumatic for so many people on so many levels. And I can definitely see like, you know, wanting to kind of cling to that quote unquote, sense of normalcy as like, kind of this safety net for maybe, you know, if you’re not ready to kind of process everything that you’ve been through and like, see, you know, some new thing on the other side, wherever the other side of the pandemic, slash is slash was. But yeah, I just I really, I’m, I’m not sure, I’m not, I’m not super confident that that the big change that I was also hoping to see is really coming to fruition.

Amanda

By now, it’s hard. I used to, I’ve

Jeanna

been thinking a lot. In this past job that I had several years ago, we were trying to implement this new like system within this was in the education realm, and we’re trying to implement this new, like behavior management system within our program. And we watched this training video that’s like it’s an outdoor concert. Everyone’s sitting in the grass watching the show, and there’s one guy, one person dancing, like, just totally having a blast, one person dancing in the middle of this contest. Everyone else kind of looking at them, like a little weird, okay, whatever. A couple minutes later, one more person joins the line, the lone dancer, and then like a few more people come and a few more people come and then like, everyone is like happily dancing at this concert. And I like I keep thinking back to that just thinking like, okay, there’s the one lone dancer out there. Like, you just have to find that one more person and that one more person and maybe hear that lone dancer in like your community. Maybe we’re the first to like, hop up and dance and like, do something silly or was something different, do something that stands out and that’s not like, fitting in with whatever the rest of your group community is doing. But like, be the lone dancer.

Jeanna

I like that kind of

Jeanna

thing. That’s like, I don’t know that was something that’s been helping me as I like Oh my gosh, send so many emails and try to various people who are in various stages of like coming back to work in their various government organizations and nonprofits to like, see if they can please use my thing. There’s a bigger purpose here to the spreadsheet, so I can share them with anyone who’s interested.

Amanda

I think I mean, listen, I applaud what you’re doing. And I feel like that should be the norm. And I was almost thinking, like, for anybody who’s listening to this, who has wanted to start their own business be their own boss, might I suggest being sort of like a concierge for rehoming things thoughtfully. Because imagine if you could pay someone to take all of your stuff, and you knew for sure that it was all ending up in a good place where it was being used again.

Jeanna

I was just I think that is brilliant. And I was just, I just saw on Instagram the other day, I believe, is this author I follow named Sandra Gould Mark, who wrote this brilliant book called fixation and talking about stuff. This is definitely a book that everyone should read. So it’s called fixation, how to have stuff without breaking the planet. And she ran a repair cafe in a repair shop in New York for a few years anyways talks a lot about like our relationship with clothes, with our relationship with things and lie, why we kind of have the things we have and why we want to hold on to the things that we have in a lot of situations and why you want to fix like, the random things that you have. But how and how hard it is to fix things is like a whole other conversation that I could go on about for a long time. But um, anyways, little plug there for Sandra gold marks excellent book, but she was moderating a talk with the founders of an organization that I think is called. It’s called Apt Deco. And they do exactly what you’re talking about Amanda They’re only based in New York and I think in San Francisco right now, but they are the furniture concierge, they will they have like a website, I believe, where you can go on there and say I have this futon and someone else will say I want your futon and they go cool. We’re hooking you up with one of our drivers who will pick up your futon from person A. And so I like that’s the kind of stuff that that we need more of there’s definitely room for it. I guess a lot of logistics, but I really think that it could be an excellent, excellent business.

Amanda

Yeah, I think so there’s plenty of room for more than more of that. Well, it was so great to talk to you about this. I wanted to know if you had any, like final advice for people who are looking to pare down in a big way like you are or just a little bit you know, because they feel like they have too much stuff and it’s okay if you don’t have an answer, but you know, people always want like, they want to hear an easy list. They need

Jeanna

definitely I do have a couple I have a couple of thoughts. Okay, great. So I would say like, start now. Like looking for those organizations and entities in your community that will take stuff don’t wait until you’re like moving next weekend to call. Yeah, start now before um, some places that you might love would be like refugee resettlement organizations, local shelters, university career closets. Some like universities will have career closets for people who need like professional outfits for interviews, of course, like reselling platforms and consignment shops for like electronics and things stem programs, if any schools have like those STEM programs, they may take electronics a lot of communities too will have like re like used electronics stores that will take broken electronics or stuff that’s like outdated not useful anymore, but they dismantle them and then the piece the bits and pieces go to like local schools or people who just want to like tinker with electronic stuffs thing means our community our town has a little like a tool library

Amanda

that the best

Jeanna

yes like look on like look through Facebook do is do some Googling for things like tool libraries, electronics, libraries, arts and crafts stores are or like re craft supply stores reused craft supply stores, they will take they are use craft supply store has probably taken the biggest bulk of stuff out of our house because I had a selling business for a while that’s now not going to be moving across the ocean with me. Other places to look, mutual aid organizations, like I said before, books, books was a big weird one for me. Because we had a lot of books, and then we’re not going to ship them and I didn’t want to take them to like our consignment stores. Because or like secondhand bookstores because I didn’t need like a book credit. And a lot of times they will make a lot of books not only take care of things that they need, but um, our we have a women’s Correctional Center in the area and their education program will take books. So I kind of figured that out by just like googling what to do with books. And somewhere online found a thing that was like these certain prison organization or prisons around the country will accept books, and I was like, Well, I’m not going to ship them somewhere. But I have a connection at the women’s prison for who runs the clothing closet. So I like text her and she connected me with the person who runs the education program. So they’re taking like dozens of boxes of books. Like towels, linens, things like that our Humane Society needs rags for like pets, so they’re a great place to send old towels and blankets and stuff, medical supplies and equipment. Everything from like braces to wheelchairs to like, my husband had a shoulder surgery a few years ago. And he had like an arm brace, shoulder sling thing. Knights of Columbus has chapters around the country, and then hands of hope. Also, they take medical equipment and refurbish it or distribute it to people who need it. And then, of course, there’s all the like online resale platforms for things that can be be shipped or you know, local or otherwise. But I think the biggest thing is just like start now. And then, and then you’re ready.

Amanda

Totally. I mean, I think and like that, honestly, is the most important of this whole thing, that it doesn’t happen easily. And, and it doesn’t happen fast. And there are all these amazing places where you can rehome your things and they’re going to make someone’s life better. But it’s not going to happen if you’re moving next week be and then you’re going to be buying that weird plastic bag dumpster that I saw at the home improvement store, and you’re going to be filling everything in it and it’s gonna go live in the landfill forever. And it’s so depressing because you’d love to have stuff for at some point you feel guilty and totally, totally. I just also wanted to add, and this all depends on where you live, but what I found to be an amazing place just in general for rehoming stuff and being able to help people sometimes even if I wasn’t actively looking to rehome something but I saw a need and I was like you know what, I have something that helps out where I was living in Lancaster County in Pennsylvania, you know, they didn’t really have a Buy Nothing group because it was too rural. And instead they just had this like a people of Lancaster helping one another group or if something like that. And it would be like, Hey, I just got out of being incarcerated. I’m moving into an apartment here are the things I need. And it would be like, oh, you know what, I do have an extra ladle. Or we did have a microwave in the garage like that kind of thing that can help you even when you’re not looking to pare down to start paring down and actually kind of I don’t know have an impact it like right away that you might not have been expected that you could have like I found it really great to be like here’s a whole backpack pool full of school supplies that I actually was just hoarding. You know, like, now you get to take them to school right now, right?

Jeanna

Yeah. So when we, when we we moved from Portland to Boise about five years ago and one of the big things that I miss about Portland was the free piles because I know. And it disappeared, and it was wonderful. And that is not, at least not in our neighborhood where we’re living currently an option.

Amanda

But I don’t see it here in Austin either. Even though it’s supposed to be so similar to Portland. I just want to say that I have a clothing hamper in my house right now in Austin, Texas, that I got from a free pile in Portland, Oregon, at least 10 years ago that has traveled around the country with me. They can be a resource in both directions.

Jeanna

100% 100% talking about my my free dumpster chair earlier. Yeah,

Amanda

exactly.

Jeanna

You pick what you take what you need, you give what you don’t. And when we had our giant free pile last time, before we moved from Portland, this girl came and she was like looking at some craft supplies I had. And I was like, Are you interested in craft supplies? And she was and so I like, like you were saying, Amanda, I I decided that there were a lot of things that I didn’t need, that would be better put to use in her hands at that time. So I got rid of a whole bunch more stuff, which is like finding that person that definitely needs the thing. And will use the thing right now is sometimes a really good way to make you reflect on like, oh, yeah, I do have that, but I don’t need it, or I’m not using it or some being put to its best use or whatever. So yeah, like, you know, following along on whatever those by nothing groups or equivalent is, next door, that app in some areas is neighborhoods will use. I’ve seen it used that way too. So yeah, just kind of keep tabs on that. And like, even if you’re not looking to purge 75% of your belongings. Find something that can go out the door in a meaningful way.

Amanda

That’s true. It’s your and, you know, regardless, like, be patient, because these things do take time, like when we moved here, we had a gazillion moving boxes. And every time we move, we’re like, oh, we’re gonna break down these boxes. And we’re gonna put them in like a closet, a shed a basement and we’re gonna use them we move again and guess what happens every single time they get ruined, like by moisture or you something like that, right? And then we can’t use that get into them. Right? Exactly. So I said, we’re not doing that this time, we are going to rehome all of these moving boxes. And I am not kidding when I say it was probably 200 moving boxes, because we had to literally pack up everything we owned into, you know, a pod to get here, right. And so everything had to be boxed when you’re doing something like that, and it’s going on a long trip. And so we bought all these boxes secondhand, but they were really, really nice. And I put a post on our buy, nothing grew up and also on next door. And yes, it took a month to get rid of all those boxes. But we ended up not even putting a single box in the recycling bin. They all got to be used by someone else for moving. And moving boxes are really expensive. So I was glad to be able to provide them to people who didn’t have that money. And it was just like, hey, there’s a big pile on our carport take what you need. And just people were coming like every day for weeks, and then they were gone. And you know, it wasn’t going to happen in a week. It took time. I think I had hopes to that moving boxes will be so exciting. They’d all be gone in a few days. It took time, but they were all gone. And so once again, I think that that patience that for forward planning is really important.

Jeanna

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s probably the biggest the biggest thing is the patient. No, it’s going to take time. And if you can start early, and if you can’t just also just like do your best.

Amanda

Yeah, don’t be so hard on yourself. Yeah,

Jeanna

I mean, I’ve still taken a couple like a couple loads to the thrift store and there will be another one you know, it’s just the stuff that I that I can’t find a home another way. But it’s so much less than I would have taken if I hadn’t you know, been doing this other project and it is really it’s really satisfying to like hand something over to a person who is going to use it like that is that’s very satisfying, it’s nice and way, especially if they like, actually really, you know, they really need it. And that’s going to help them, you know, access something that they might not have been able to have otherwise, or just make their lives easier. Or just like not buy something new at a store,

Amanda

which is also great. That’s why I missed the era of the free the free pile, because I found a lot of things in free piles over the years that I would have otherwise had to go buy new. And it feels like even just like using that clothing hamper as an example, I would have totally like, that’s a big thing to go buy. That consumes like some materials, right? And so just the fact that I’ve had the same one all this time that I got for free, that someone else no longer needed products they were moving. That’s my guess. It’s like, how amazing is that? So it’s like a really nice hammer. I feel like they paid at least $100 for it.

Jeanna

I’m thinking about like dollars per use for Yeah,

Amanda

totally. Like there’s all these different ways you can look at it, but it’s a win. And no matter how you look at it, you know?

Jeanna

Whether you are bringing it into your home, or trying to get it out, yeah, it’s a good, good way to live.

Amanda

Well, thank you so much for sharing all this great advice. When are you moving? How much time do you have left? We,

Jeanna

um, we are supposed to close on our house at the end of May. And then we have a limbo period of maybe two to three months. We’re going to be living in my parents house, which they are not going to be living in at that same time. While we wait for visa to process.

Amanda

Where are you? Where are you going?

Jeanna

We’re moving to Spain. That’s

Amanda

right. I thought I I was like thinking Spain, but I was like, I don’t know, she said that. How exciting. I’m excited for you.

Jeanna

You Thank you. We are very excited. We are very overwhelmed. And we are having some real soul searching moments when it comes to just the things we have the things we use the future things that we might have. Yeah, it’s it is it’s a really good time to like, make some tweaks to habits when it comes to stuff. So

Amanda

a big move like that we’ll do it.

Jeanna

Even if you don’t have to do it. It’s a fun hypothetical exercise maybe to go through and just like, oh my gosh, oh, yeah. No, I

Amanda

totally agree. I honestly think, even though we’ve moved so many times, like I can’t underscore enough how this last move was just particularly traumatic. And I think it was like, Okay, well, it’s pandemic and it was like peak Delta surge. So we were like, we can’t have movers, like we really had to, like, experience the full weight, literally and figuratively, of all the stuff we owned. And I was like, Wow, I’m gonna live every day of my life from now on as if I’m gonna have to do that again.

Jeanna

Uh huh. Yeah. Well, it didn’t you have to, like do multiple trips across the country or something like

Amanda

that. Yeah. But we it’s

Jeanna

a very, very,

Amanda

it was intense

Jeanna

experience, and definitely a good thing to learn from and, like, carry that with you going forward?

Amanda

Absolutely. Yeah, we did. You know, it’s like, I think that my brain has blocked some of the pain of it out. But you’re right, we did. We drove from Pennsylvania to Austin, Texas, which is like a three day drive with a trailer full of possessions because we knew, like, everything was going haywire with the pandemic, they were basically to move the bulk of our stuff they dropped off a huge trailer, like like for a tractor trailer, not a full length one but pretty close in our driveway, and we filled that with all of our stuff. And they said it might make it to Texas in two weeks, but it might be a lot longer and we were like we can’t I was like I can’t sleep on the floor for like a month or two months like and not have dishes and like a place to work at like I just I can’t like I’m gonna lose my mind and the house we live in actually has cement floors, so it would have been particularly brutal. So we brought like here like a bed, a couch, one table, two chairs, like dishes. Yeah, exactly. You have everything just so we could like kind of live here and because that was like we have to be prepared for anything and I don’t like I was really adamant even before we had to pack up our stuff and deal with like the actual moving of most of it. I was really adamant that we not acquire more stuff to bridge that gap in between. Like I was like, I see how this goes. Suddenly we are at Target and we’re buying like all these dishes and pots and pans. stuff that we don’t need, because we’ve really nice stuff that we’ve like, accumulated our whole lives like we’re gonna hold on to that. So, so yes, we drove down here with the trailer of stuff, we spent a week and then we drove all the way back to Pennsylvania, three, three days back. And then like, not even a month later, we did that whole drive again, me driving the car with a trailer and Brenda, my cat, and all of my plants in the car, and then Dustin driving the RV with the other forecasts. It was just like, Let’s never do this again.

Jeanna

No Talk about a cautionary tale.

Amanda

I know, oh, my gosh, the day, you know, it was like we have to leave, we have to leave for Texas now. Like our stuff is gone. We are we’ve gave her like we have to be out of this house in a day, we gotta get to Texas so I can start working. We realized that like after we packed everything up, there was still stuff. And it wasn’t stuff we wanted to leave behind. So the plan for the whole trip had been because it was the Delta surge, that we would sleep in the RV every night like I packed up our clothes in there and food and we were all set up to like live in there for the next three days. But then we had to start throwing stuff in the RV. So we just started packing in like random Furniture and this and that. And then it was like well now we can’t sleep in here. So now we have to find motels to stay on. And then we drove to Knoxville, Tennessee, the first day was a really long a brutal drive. And we got there in the middle of the night. It’s a New Year’s Eve. There’s like drunk people in the parking lot fighting and all kinds of crazy stuff. And I said, Listen, now that we’re staying in hotel, we really need to like let the cats get out of their carriers. So they have to sleep in the RV tonight. So to do that, we just take everything out of the RV and repack it so that then we can let the cats out. I know isn’t that crazy? It’s in a parking lot. And like, like an econo lodge on New Year’s Eve at like one in the morning. Oh, it was terrible. I felt like we were like that, like the Beverly Hillbillies. We just had to stop strapped everywhere. Like, just rolling into Texas. Like that’s the town. Somebody reached out to me about rehoming your stuff. I was like, this is a feeling that I understand way too Well, right now.

Jeanna

It was a little triggering. Yeah, I

Amanda

was like, I hear you. Let’s talk about how it could be better.

Jeanna

Also really good for me as I’m going into this move, because it’s really I mean, it’s tough this relationship with stuff is it’s challenging. I don’t think there’s one. There’s not one right answer. You know, like with everything, you kind of way you you get the information, you weigh the pros and cons that are relevant for you, and you kind of make the best decision that you can. And it’s not always going to be perfect. And any way that we you know, any way you slice it, you’re you’re using, like we’re using resources on this move, right?

Amanda

Oh, yeah, totally. There’s no easy answer to anything. And I was actually just talking to someone earlier about how like, unfortunately, like, our brains want an easy, good, bad answer. And when it comes to stuff like this, it’s just, it’s just not there. There isn’t right. And it’s sometimes it comes down to like, Okay, well, what’s the best solution for you? Everything is complicated. Like there’s never like, this is the right answer. This is the wrong answer. That’s clear. And so I think it’s just like, sometimes it comes down to like, what’s the best answer for your sanity? Because, you know, like, that’s the immediate.

Jeanna

Yes, yeah. Especially when it’s when it’s a big a big thing Well, and, you know, it depends on your situation to like, right now, this is the biggest big thing that I’m dealing with when it’s big, but also just just getting through like a grocery store trip at the beginning of the pandemic, that was a really big thing. Also, so it’s all relative, and it’s just yeah, pick pick the thing that’s best for you right now and if you can factor in some of those larger scale, you know, those things that little inner circle look farther out from you. Excellent. But I do think that the best and easiest the easiest easy thing that anyone can do

Jeanna

I think is just choose not to bring the thing it’s one of you be thing don’t bring the thing home. Yeah,

Amanda

because after that, it’s complicated. You know, like, can’t handle the pressure just don’t do it. Like that’s, that’s ultimately what it is. I get a lot of messages from people who are like looking for an easy solution to like what they should do with this or that like whether to buy it or not, or which to buy or et cetera, et cetera. And I’m like, maybe you just don’t need to buy it at all. Like what but like what?

Jeanna

Okay, well, then you have to, you know, be ready to accept the consequences. repercussions are a few like strong nouns, but the, you know, you have to accept those.

Amanda

I had such a great time talking to you. I’m glad we were able to make this work with everything going on everywhere.

Jeanna

Likewise, yes, thank you so much for the time and the great conversations. Super fun.

Thanks again to Jeanna for taking the time to share her experience with us. I’m going to do a post this week on Instagram sharing a lot of her suggestions. And I’ll be linking to her reading recommendation, Fixation: How to Have Stuff without Breaking the Planet, in the show notes. It’s definitely going on my reading list!

Do you have other recommendations for mindfully rehoming your unwanted or un-needed stuff? Send them my way! You can either email me at [email protected] or you can record an audio message on your phone or computer and send it my way.

Let’s be honest here: moving away from “donation bin or trash bin” is not easy! In fact, it’s pretty groundbreaking in the fast fashion era, right? So we are all going to have share ideas with others, be receptive to new “outlets” for the things we no longer want/need, and really, maybe not acquire those things in the first place1 It’s going to require a lot of support and idea-sharing from all of us. This is not easy. None of this is easy. But I think we are all at a point where we realize that “easy” is no longer acceptable. And that we are ready to put in the work to do things in a better way and minimize our impact on the planet and its people. I know I’m ready for this. And so are you!