Episode 144: The 12 Days of Slow Gifting (part one), with Maggie Greene

one and only job.

I am telling you all of this because our first audio essay, from Ruby of Spokes and Stitches, is about how her financial situation motivated her to pursue a full time job. So her business is on the backburner right now. I think so many of us forget that starting and running a small business requires a lot of money. And sometimes it just doesn’t happen the way we need it to be in order to have some level of financial stability (and the ability to rest easy at night). I appreciate stories like this and the honesty and bravery required to share them, because business media coverage is so focused on unicorn companies that allegedly started from nothing and are now worth a gazillion dollars. Highly fictionalized businesses where no one is ever worried about paying their medical bills or getting their car fixed. This kind of nonsense just perpetuates the myth that anyone can be successful in business if they just work hard enough. Nope. Not true.

Okay, with that introduction, let’s get into the audio essays.

Hi Amanda. My name is Ruby Gertz and I am a sewist and pattern maker and educator. In fall of 2020, I was one of the people who quit my high pressure underpaid job in art school admissions and started a small business. I started spokes in stitches other than in the sewing pattern company at the time by height of the pandemic selling digital products online seemed like a safe and lucrative option. In my first year and a half, I released four sewing patterns and taught online crafting sewing men and mending workshops for local libraries and other organizations. During the sewing pattern development phase, I fell deep down a rabbit hole of researching size chart development and grading techniques across a wide size range. And I basically developed my own system for drafting across different proportional fits in a way that would be gender neutral and ideally fit the most bodies across across a wide size range as possible. During this time, I also sought out a business course I attended webinars from my local SBDC. That’s a small business development center, and I established relationships with several mentors and professional service providers to help me navigate the murky depths of entrepreneurship. After 18 months of nearly nonstop work and effort towards making my business profitable, I began to recognize the signs of burnout. I knew I had to take a step back and reassess. I decided to declare a two month sabbatical, during which I planned my belated COVID wedding and went on a honeymoon trip to Ireland with my spouse. When I returned, I felt energized and excited to reimagine my business as a solar punk Atelier, a one stop shop for beautiful and imaginative custom clothing and costume pieces, sewing lessons and workshops and mending and alteration services. I was really tired of spending so much time at the computer, especially doing the sewing pattern development. And I really wanted to do work that was more hands on and actually be making things myself. So I revamped my website and branding. And I began opening up my home studio for these new services. It was exciting, but I still felt like something was missing. I was really lonely, and I was constantly stressed out about money. I have a lot of student loan debt and the Federal zero interest deferment on federal student loans was one of the reasons I was able to take the financial risk of starting my own small business in the first place. This was a deferment on all federal student loans that was issued during the pandemic, and I believe now has been extended to December of 2022. So as the deadline for the loans to be, you know, essentially turned back on was creeping closer. My financial anxiety was getting pretty unbearable. And then about a month ago, I got the opportunity to go work for a company that makes puppets, props and costumes for the entertainment industry. This was a full time job, you know, in my field that utilized my skills, and the timing felt like a divine intervention. And I said, Yes. Right now, I’ve decided to put my small business on hiatus while I rebuild my savings and learn new skills working for someone else. I’ll still sell my PDF sewing patterns online, but I won’t be taking commissions or teaching sewing lessons or workshops for the foreseeable future. There are definitely sacrifices I’m making by choosing to work full time for someone else. And I thought about these a lot when I made this decision, having to ask for time off having a shitty commute using all of my time and creative energy towards someone else’s projects and goals. But honestly, trying to run a small business as a solo entrepreneur caused me so much stress and anxiety that I was willing and even excited to pack it all away for a while. My new employer is great. And they’ve made it really clear that they care about their workers quality of life. It’s been really delightful working on a team of people and getting to know other creatives and working alongside other people, instead of working alone by myself all the time. I still think that I’ll circle back to entrepreneurship in the future. But for now, I’m really grateful for the opportunity to make consistent pay and not be shouldering the burden of always having to be in charge and make every decision. So that’s my small business story. You can find me on Instagram as spokes and stitches, all one word lowercase spokes, like the spokes of a bicycle wheel, and stitches. Thanks again for the opportunity to share my story and thank you for this amazing podcast that I love listening to in the car on my shitty commute to my new job. Thanks.

Hi, Amanda, thank you so much for giving small businesses this opportunity and for being such an influential change maker. My name is Bea Lorimer and I have an upcycled clothing brand Small Business called Heke design. I work with pre loved clothing that is typically destined for landfill. I started my business about 12 years ago, and I started because I saw how much clothing op shops throw out. They are just inundated with donations. And as I’m sure you know, probably at least 40% of what’s donated gets tossed out. A lot of it’s still in good condition. They just get way too much. Anyway, once I knew this, I felt compelled to do something about it. I’ve always been an avid recycler. I used to have a fashion design business a couple of decades ago. So I was already designing and sewing my own stuff. Actually, I’ve been sewing since I was about eight years old. Anyway, I just started collecting bags and bags of clothing, cutting it up seeing what I could do with it. I believe that from a design point of view, when you put limitations around it, you’re just forced to be more creative. So I like that about upcycling. I’m based on why Hickey Island which is a little island close to Auckland in New Zealand. So down here in New Zealand produces quite a bit of wool, especially merino wool, which is a nice, washable, non shrinking lightweight kind of wool. So I focused quite a bit on that collect heaps of Merino jumpers and shrunken wool sweaters. I turned them into bright colored sweater coats, Merino ponchos, and now I’m doing a unisex pullover sweater. I also work with lots of denim making patchwork jeans and I do a lot of skirts. There is such an incredible amount of waste in the fashion industry, whether it’s clothing that’s thrown out, industry fabric off cuts or leftover fabric samples. There is just no way that anything new needs to be produced. We’ve got so much surplus, we’ve really got to be utilizing what we have. People have to get over this consumption mentality and start embracing upcycling. Anyway, why do people want to wear the same shit as everyone else? At least with upcycled each piece is going to be unique. So I think find your own style, be colorful, shop mindfully and support up cyclers. Anyway, that’s my thoughts. Thank you.

• Hi there, my name is Kait Russell. And in the summer of 2020, I happened upon my small business. I had never intended to be a business owner. In fact, I went to college for musical theater performance. And in March of 2020, I was solidifying my contract for my first Broadway show. And the day I was supposed to go in and finalize things. Broadway got the notice that they were closing down because of COVID. And I went back to my home state and really shut down. Everything that I had worked for, for the past decade of my life had just been high Bosch right in front of me. And I didn’t know what to do. I sat on the couch, eating Ben and Jerry’s and watching Ru Paul’s drag race for many months, when my sweet partner asked me, there was anything I had always wanted to do. He wanted to help me get out of this funk. And I racked my brain for a little bit and I realized, you know, I always thought it would be really cool to try and make candles just for fun just for me. And he was very sweet. And he bought me a candlemaking kit off of this random website. And it came and I was so excited because as a young girl, my mom always had candles lit in the house. For me that was a sign of peace and safety. I had a bit of a tumultuous childhood. But I always knew that when I came home and the candles were lit that things were good. So not only am I a lover of candles because the the way they smell and the way they look, but for me there’s an emotional component there that I learned I guess in my childhood from my mom, we would always go shopping at the Yankee Candle store. And the scents were always so comforting to me. And again, it was like a beacon of hope. I knew when I came home, the candles were lit, that was going to be a good night, it’s going to be a good day. And so fast forward to 2020. And my candle kit arrives, and I make my first set of candles, and they turn out better than I ever could have hoped. Now, I want to preface this by saying that I am a Capricorn. And I’m very type A. So you can bet your bottom dollar that before I even opened this candle kit, I was watching YouTube video after YouTube video on how to correctly make a candle. So I wasn’t going into this blind. But it’s difficult for me to do anything and just wing it right. So I made my first batch of candles, and they were stunning. I decorated them on top with crystals and all sorts of beautiful things. And I thought to myself, I want to share these with the world. At the time, I had a small Instagram following. And I thought I should put these on my Instagram and see if anybody else loves them as much as I do. And sure enough, people were like, Where can I buy those? And I thought to myself, buy those. Oh my gosh, people want to buy these people want to pay money for these. And lo and behold, it dawned on me. Maybe I could be a Chandler, which is the candlemaker. Maybe I could start a small business. Now when I started my business, I was living in Arizona, and it was the middle of the summer. So the first couple months were a little rough. I was using a Google doc to take orders from people. And I was totally out of my depth. Like I said, I did not go to school for business. I had no idea how to package things, how to print packing slips, what was the best shipping company to use? How do I even pack these candles, and I ended up packing all of my candles with ice packs because it got to be 120 degrees, where I was and I’m making, like I still do soy candles. And they melt really easily and 120 degrees. So I remember kind of just winging it. And it gave me this sense of purpose to know that I was creating things that brought joy to other people, especially during this time. We’re in the middle of a pandemic. And everybody was feeling really down and confused and scared and sort of listless. And here I had birthed into the world, these beautiful creations that were making people excited. And I sent out my first shipments and started to get some feedback. And people were obsessed. They were just as obsessed as I was. And I thought okay, well, maybe now I can make a different kind of candle, like maybe I can design something different. And thus my company was born. So I sort of stumbled into it. And then the past years, it’s been about two years now it’s gone through such a transformation. I’ve changed the name, I’ve changed the branding. And I have learned so much. And I think the thing that stands out to me the most about being a small business owner, why I feel like it’s important for me to continue doing this is being being a small business owner, you get to put the human element back into consumerism. We live in a society we are constantly bombarded with by this by this. I mean, Jeff Bezos is like the richest person in the world, everybody, Amazon’s everything. But there’s this beautiful, unique human element that you don’t get when you are purchasing things from places like Amazon, or Walmart. When you go to a craft market or a farmers market or an antique shop, you can feel the energy in the air. It’s palpable. It’s exciting. These things mean something and it makes it all the more fun to buy them. Somebody spent time with this. There was a human being that put their love and energy into this. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people say to me, you know I used to buy all my candles from Target and now I buy them from you or other small business owners, because there’s something about connecting with your community that just cannot be found when you are consuming from big box stores. As a small business owner, that is something that has sort of dawned on me. And I think I knew it before. But I don’t think that I could speak to it. You know the difference when you are shopping, or you’re out at a mall. And there’s like a little store that’s owned by somebody. And everything in it is like handmade goods and you walk in, it’s like, this is so exciting. There’s something exciting about it, because it was made for you. It wasn’t made for everybody, it was made for you. When you go into a big box store, it doesn’t feel like that. These things were made for everybody. They don’t care who buys them, as long as somebody buys them. But that human element that comes from small businesses just cannot be beat. And that’s why I always tell people who want to start their own businesses, just do it. Because there is nobody else out there like you. There’s a million people selling candles, I am you’re not unique in that respect. I’m unique in that I’m me. And when I make something for you, this is the only place you can get it. So I love to encourage people to follow their dreams and create what makes them excited. Because whenever I design a new candle or package in order, I’m excited. And I hope and believe and know that that excitement that love and that joy is then imprinted on that product and sent to the person who needs it. And it’s in this way that I feel like we can reestablish connection with each other in a very human way. So I guess throughout my journey, I’ve learned that energy is important. And people can feel it. It’s why your favorite brands or your favorite brands, whether they’re giant or tiny, they’re your favorite for a reason. It’s the energy that comes off of the product you’re buying. And it’s my belief that it comes from the person who made it. The person whose heart and soul went into creating or curating that for you.

  So again, my name is Kait, I run mystical glow Candle Company. I make soy candles that are sustainable and clean burning. Most of all, they have spectacular energy. And that is because I will it to be so every candle I make I make with joy and excitement. They are small batch handpoured you can find me at mystical glow candle CO on Instagram or mystical glow candle co.com and to any entrepreneurs who may be listening to this, just do it. You are the thing that makes your business worth it. You are the thing that people are buying it is your energy, your love, your excitement and your joy. Thank you so much

   

Amanda 0:00

All right, Maggie, you’re like a regular round here. I’m still gonna go ahead and introduce you as the Queen of Halloween, even though we have moved on to other holiday themes at this point, but do you want to remind everybody else who you are beyond winning Halloween year after year?

Maggie 0:19

Yeah, so thank you for the acknowledgement I never get tired of being referred to as the Halloween queen. That’s my favorite. One of my, one of my favorite crowns to wear. Listeners, you know, you’ve you’ve heard from me before, but you can also call me your fairy god Thrifter. That’s a role that I play all year round, that I am the chief everything Officer of Maggie Green Style, which is a small micro business that I describe as a one woman band on a mission to transform how you see yourself and I specialize in personal brand and style.

Amanda 0:56

So naturally, you as the Halloween Queen are great fit for an episode about Yes. I think you know, I when I started to think about this year’s slow gifting episode, I knew right away, you had to be the guest, even though I know you do not love this time of year. Nor do I it’s very complicated for me. And so I’d like to hear you know, what are your thoughts on the November and December of it all.

Maggie 1:29

I mean, I Halloween is my Christmas. That’s kind of, you know, I, I, I invest everything emotionally. I mean, you can create a visit

Amanda 1:39

this year, by the way, I think even more thrilled by your costume.

Maggie 1:44

Thank you. So you know, like, once Halloween is over, and it is like an overnight shift. Like as soon as November 1 hits. It’s like, internally, there’s this, I mean, you know, wake up feeling differently. It’s like, I don’t know, it’s like a downhill, downward spiral almost it gets, you know, starts getting colder and darker and the days get shorter, but also just the holiday season and all of the consumption and the stress and the pressure. And of course, like, I’ve got a complicated relationship with family so it brings up you know, things like that. It’s, it’s not my favorite time of the year, I don’t have what one might call the holiday spirit. I’m like, I am spooky spirit all the way. And I’m I’m really I’m inspired by the work that you do with clotheshorse and this specific conversation, because this is a way of like, counteracting all of those things that make this time of year. A struggle for some of us. So thank you for this opportunity.

Amanda 2:48

I mean, I’m so glad to have you here and I will say that most holidays, give me far more angst and despair than they do happiness. I love Halloween somehow Halloween to me is the purest holiday. I love the aesthetic of Valentine’s Day. But otherwise everything else about it can be a real emotional spiral for many people. Also, it’s so consumed me, don’t get me started on how New Year’s Eve is always like literally the most disappointing night of the year. Yeah, let’s see don’t really do St. Patrick’s Day. But I do love a shamrock shake and Dustin and I do have a tradition of getting a shamrock shake every year. Not really sure if that you know is part of the Spirit of St. Patrick’s Day, but whatever. Easter. You know, I love pastels. It’s kind of fun to decorate eggs. I have enjoyed some ham in my life. That’s what my family they have is ham. But in general I come from I was raised in an atheist family. So even though we celebrated some of these holidays, it wasn’t for religious reasons. So I don’t have a lot of connection to it. For the July Labor Day, Memorial Day, all those holidays obviously have great meaning. But like, you know, I It’s not like I’m getting going all out for them. And, you know, when we get into these fall holidays, these winter holidays that are so focused on two things. They’re focused on family and shopping. And both of these are really painful things to me. You know, I was telling you before we started that I my entire adult life has been working on the front lines of people buying stuff they don’t need at the holidays. Seriously. Yeah, in the beginning, was working retail and I have talked many times on clotheshorse about all of those freaking humping dogs that we sold my first retail job like just hundreds and hundreds of these like they were called Humphrey to humping dog at Christmas people bought the shit out of them and you know that they were like in the trash a week later. And as a buyer, my job every year was to think of new ways to get people to buy stuff that they saw and would add as a gift or buy as a gift, but it wasn’t really like meaningful or special. It was just convenient or on sale, or all that was left, right. And it is out of those ashes. Phoenix of slow gifting rises. Okay.

Maggie 5:17

I love that analogy. So vivid and just like, yeah, really very, very much resonates with me for sure. Good.

Amanda 5:25

Good. So let’s talk about gifts for a second. Because one thing that you know, as a person who’s worked retail customer service, any of you who have done this also know this feeling. There is something about this time of year, that brings out all of the worst aspects of many people’s personalities. And I assume it’s because they’re so stressed out, right? Like, there’s something about these holidays, that is super stressful. And I mean, I think a big part of that is like interpersonal relationships and being forced to hang out with people who maybe aren’t great for you at the holidays. Know that feeling? Well? Sure you do, too. But I also think people are like, so stressed out about Christmas shopping, or just holiday gift shopping as a whole. Like, it seems like people are like, the closer we get to the the bet the holidays, the more they are like on that brink of just losing it.

Maggie 6:30

Yeah, like they, they push it, they’ve kind of put it off through the year, right. And then there’s just this mad dash like, oh, shit, the clock is ticking. We only have, you know, of course, commercials and the radio and like everybody’s doing their big countdown to Christmas, like how many reminders? Do we need that there are only so many days left? I think that just like compounds that stress?

Amanda 6:54

Yeah, I think so I think people worry about money. They worry about the time to find gifts they worry about is the gift good enough, right? I mean, there’s just and then they have to go out there. And they have to worry about crowds and driving and you know, just the general chaos of this time of year. And if you have a lot of anxiety about being in crowded spaces, this is literally the worst time to go anywhere. You know, as we get into this, like shopping season, like the best thing you could do is go to places that don’t sell things. Which would be like what, I don’t know, even a museum.

Maggie 7:30

I want to stay home.

Amanda 7:31

Yeah. There you go. There you go. Um, so I don’t know like for you. I thought we could before we start talking about like what slow gifting is and give people advice, which is what we’re going to be doing today we’re going to be talking all about the 12 days of slow gifting. I wanted to hear like what currently this year like what is your plan around gifts? Who you gifting? Do you would you have boundaries around it or you know gifts, like tell me what you’re up to.

Maggie 8:01

So this year is kind of different than past years, I think I’m going to be even more assertive and vocal and a champion for no gifts. In my immediate, like, domestic environment, my partner and I have for several years running, we’ve kind of made this commitment to not not really do gifts. Our thing is we treat the dogs like they have a Christmas morning that. And I’ve been thinking about that a lot as well. Like, normally we would get like stuffed animals. And we make this joke that like it snows in our living room because they just destroy everything. And like, obviously it turns immediately to trash and there’s so much waste there. So if we’re going to do stuffed animals, let’s do them secondhand. Let’s make that commitment. So that’s going to be our challenge this year. But yeah, I really I don’t want gifts. I I want to make that known in this episode, whoever’s listening. Like, I mean, I love handwritten notes and cards and things like that, let me know that you’re thinking about me, but please don’t send me anything. And likewise, like don’t expect something from me. I just, I really want to move away from that. So that may change in the future. It’s just kind of like my vibe in this moment. So I don’t really have a plan for gifting last year, and I’ll probably do this again this year, I made a point to record like personal video messages to all of my clients, for example, which was a lot of work. You know, there may be only a minute long, but like, that list is long. And I’d like to do that for family and friends too. Because it is personal, it’s meaningful. There’s also zero waste associated with it know stuff. And it’s something that they can, you know, watch once or 100 times or check it out later, you know, years down the line so yeah, I’m I’m a big no gift or

Amanda 10:05

I know I love that I have definitely I have a kid. Even though Dylan is an adult now I still still do give them gifts and their partner and Dustin and I might give one another gifts but we actually our usual our family tradition is to go on a trip for for the Christmas break week period there because we’re not like, I don’t know, we’re like not really connected to our families in a big way like that. However, like the pride that you take in your Halloween costumes is my approach to decorating my pink Christmas tree but strictly as a craft. My photos will be coming in the coming weeks, I’m sure. But our big gift to ourselves this year is actually Dustin and I are going to go to Japan after Christmas.

Maggie 10:55

Oh wow. That’s awesome.

Amanda 10:58

I know I just was like you know we are not doing anything for any of the other holidays just like travel has been really expensive. We have a lot of stuff going on like just it’s just been possible to make things work out we might go camping the actual weekend of Christmas but cuz you know I’ve off work we have to like seize the day. But I have been just all year like I I am almost embarrassed to tell people how much I work. But I will say on the weekdays, I generally work from 8am until nine or 10pm Every day between my day job and clotheshorse and small biz, big pick and helping other people, et cetera, et cetera. So I just like really need to get a break in at the end of this year. And I thought, why not go somewhere really far away? That’s what that’s already doing.

Maggie 11:49

Pretty damn far. Yeah. Yeah. For you, though.

Amanda 11:52

Yeah, I’m excited. We haven’t been to Japan since like before the pandemic, but it’s a really special place to us. And I am so excited to see what it’s like to be there when it’s really freaking cold. Because I live somewhere that isn’t cold. So that’s what our big gift I guess is this year, and in general, we just try to focus on second hand gifts when we do gift gifts, which is like a labor of love. For me, it’s a braid up there. With decorating my tree is like finding year round, no matter what, it’s someone’s birthday, or anything else is finding the most perfect secondhand gift.

Maggie 12:27

That speaks to me really deeply. Like, outside of the holidays, curating gifts for people, and practicing generosity and service is like, definitely a lifestyle, you know, year round activity for me. So I’m not anti gift explicitly across the board. It’s just like, I want to remove it from this time of year. Kind of make it you know, take a more holistic approach, I guess.

Amanda 12:54

It’s totally totally okay. So today, we’re going to talk about slow gifting, which is exactly what you just said, you know, I, it’s buying gifts with intention. It’s actually choosing what the recipient of that gift one’s not just what is available or easy. There’s a lot of that not what’s just on sale for Black Friday, or you saw as you are about to check out at the store. It’s about asking the recipient what they really want and need and having that dialogue, right. It’s opting for secondhand gifts which is that’s gonna be my favorite part of this episode and probably yours too. But like, I would say one of my dream jobs would to be just to be a secondhand gift shopper for people. Like it’s a full time job. Imagine if we could start that business Maggie, I think we would kill it where we were just like personal shoppers for secondhand gifts.

Maggie 13:44

I am so down. Yeah. I’m already creating the brand in my mind that is yes.

Amanda 13:51

They say if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. I read that like I will talk about this more but I really do love giving people gifts and actually, every time I go on a trip for business, I feel like this is very like 1950s data of me I always bring destin a gift back a special gift that I have thought about on my entire trip or knew in advance I could only procure there and so I love giving people gifts and I especially love finding the perfect secondhand gift. Wait until you hear about what I did for our anniversary we’ll get there. But secondhand gifts or items from small brands and makers like really shopping our values, even when we’re talking about shopping for gifts for other people and of course like shopping locally when possible as part of that. I actually think that the mad dash to buy so much shit on sale or just just a lot of it in the first place has stripped gift giving and the holidays. Have a big chunk of joy, you know, to talk about thinking about gifts in a different way. or even no gifts at all is not anti holiday. And I cannot say that enough. This is not the war on Christmas or whatever people talk about when they talked about the Starbucks cups changing like this is really leaning into like what they call the reason for the season. Another part of slow gifting is making gifts when you have that like time energy privilege, once again, the time and energy are the privilege. But if you can do that, I think that’s a really amazing idea. reusing materials and packaging for your projects, skipping that brand new role of wrapping paper, don’t worry, we’re going to talk about wrapping paper and a few. And also revisiting your gift list. Like does everyone need a gift? Do you need? Do you need a gift from them? And you know, as a larger question, isn’t the pressure to give a ton of gifts? Just a product of consumerism? Maggie, have you been forced into gift situations outside of your control?

Maggie 16:06

Yeah, like I. So when I think about that, it’s not so much like family situations, although I’ve had experience with that, but it’s like, you know, the, the weird co worker co working like Office gift exchange style, ma’am. Super impersonal. Like just really? Yeah, cheap and doesn’t have any meaning. It sucks. You know, it’s like, okay, we’re not getting paid well, anyway, as employees. And even though like, they’re saying, you know, don’t spend more than 10 or 20 bucks, like, so you’re also expecting us to pay, you know, like, make this investment back into the company for Christmas. It’s just weird. I don’t like it.

Amanda 16:50

Yeah, I know, I’ve had to do it at so many jobs. And it’s so stressful. And I was, I was thinking about it the other day, like, what is it about that? Why is it so common? Is it because adults really like to open presents? Or is it that we’re being told that it’s more fun than it actually is? I don’t know. That’s a question for the universe, right? But I’ve had to do so many of those work, gift exchanges. And it’s always so strange to me that we do it. It’s just like one more thing to be stressed out about to write like, Oh, God, I gotta go get this $20 gift. And I was teaching a class the other night. You know, it was not about the holiday shopping at all. But we started talking about Bath and Bodyworks. And I said to everyone, how many of you in your life have received small bottles of lotion, shower gel or hand sanitizer from Bath and Bodyworks? From someone who didn’t really know you? And everybody raised their hand. And I was like, what if this is what keeps Bath and Bodyworks afloat? Or gifts you give to people you don’t really know very well. I don’t know.

Maggie 18:02

Oh my gosh, that’s how many bottles of how many small, like gift size bottles of lotion and products like that, that I see on like, desks and inside cubicles. And it’s just like, yeah, they’re they’re cornerstones kind of that’s funny.

Amanda 18:20

It is funny. I will tell you as someone who’s like, I noticed it’s creepy to give someone lotion and shower gel. If you really think about it. Yeah. Unless you know them. Well, you know, then fine. But I was thinking the other day about this like a little bit more because I was just getting in my head like, do I have to do this with my team at work? The good news is I brought it up and everybody was like, No, that’s stupid. And I was like, Fuck, yeah, everyone. But I was thinking about how, you know, in many of my jobs. You know, we obviously part of our business was e commerce. And we got really into this habit of creating landing pages on the website that were like gifts under $10 gifts under $20 gifts under $50. And that wasn’t because we were thinking about people’s budgets, it was directly focused on people who are buying for these gift exchanges with a price threshold. They always have a price threshold, which I understand, but I can assure you that all of the retailers are out there on to your tricks onto your gift exchange tricks, and they are pandering to us. So yeah. Okay, so revisiting your gift list. And then lastly, and this is so important is respecting other people’s boundaries about gifts. If someone says no gifts, listen to them. They are not just saying that they really mean it. They really, really, really mean it. i This is one where I don’t know if you’ve had awkward conversations with people or so like listen, I don’t want gifts. But I the first time I had a conversation with a family member about this She was basically like, you’re a horrible person is their response. And I was like, I don’t think it is like, Listen, I’m spending so much money to buy a gift for you and your partner from me and then also from my husband. And it’s just like we could all take that money and go do something cool. I would rather you to go out to dinner or go to Disney World or whatever it is that you want to do. Because I don’t need it. I find need something I’ll go buy it. You know? Yeah. And so that was a tough conversation. But I’ve had other people sort of take it as more like a challenge.

Maggie 20:36

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing, like I, I will keep this anonymous to respect people’s privacy, there is a person that like, I have this same conversation with them every year. And it’s usually like, there’s a middle person involved. Like, it’s not a conversation that happens directly between us. There’s a mediator that’s like, So and so says this or wants to know this, and I’m like, No, I don’t I don’t want anything. I’m really serious about that. Please make it clear. And that’s its add on. It’s like weird and nuanced with them. I think they insist and are so persistent about gifting because they want, like the acknowledgement and that like, I don’t know. That’s, it’s interesting. But yeah, so I’m gearing up to have that conversation again, like I do every year, like, No, I don’t want anything. Please don’t do that. Yeah, so awkward. Don’t

Amanda 21:32

do it. respect that. We’re going to talk about that more. And we’re going to give you some ideas for how to talk to people about fat. Overall, this new approach of gifting, slow gifting is, believe it or not, it’s way more fun. Because it’s already super fun to give someone a gift. Like if you love giving gifts, which I love giving gifts. It’s like 1000 times better if it’s the perfect gift that you planned in advance, not something you just grabbed along the way, something that you selected with care you really like thought about. It’s just so great. It’s also less wasteful, because oh man, and I know you you see this to Maggie. So many times, I’m in the home goods section of a thrift store. And there are always so many new inbox items that were totally sitting in someone’s closet for garage, perhaps basement, Whatever for 510 2030 years, that were gifts that they did not want. And I see a lot of them the same things over and over again, like oh my God, so many bread machines. You know, or like,

Maggie 22:47

pasta makers.

Amanda 22:48

Oh my god. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say appliances that only serve one purpose. So many of those. Please don’t buy those. Everyone. I mean, I get okay, like maybe a toaster only serves one purpose, but it kind of does other things. Right. But like we’re talking like, this is a weird thing that makes cupcakes now that thing’s called your oven. Okay. We saw a lot of us at my first retail job. Lots of these weird cupcake and donut makers that it was like, No, that’s what your oven is.

Maggie 23:14

Unless they ask for it. And that case you’re filling a need but like yeah, otherwise, takes up counterspace

Amanda 23:22

world’s biggest wine glass. That’s a gallon that no one wants that. They laugh at it for a second and then guess what it ends up at the Goodwill? Probably broken. Yeah. And that’s the thing. There are so many unloved gifts that end up in thrift stores and landfills. Because they were merely selected to fulfill an obligation. And we all know that feeling. We’ve all had that. Even if it was just for our gift, our office gift exchange. It was like oh, it’s gotta be $20 I guess I’m gonna get a bunch of this raspberry lotion. You know, raspberry lotion is a very specific thing. You know, it might not appeal to everybody. I also want to say like, listen, let’s get down to brass tacks here like gifts costs money. People go into wild amounts of debt at the holidays for gifts I don’t even like like thinking about it makes me queasy. I was gonna get some statistics on it. And I was like, I can’t handle it today. But I know that it does my friend. My best friend growing up Laura Curley, her mom, I don’t think this exists anymore because we live in a major credit card era now. But she had this thing called the Christmas Club, which it was like a special savings account that every week for the whole year she put money into and then she got to take it out in December to buy Christmas gifts to think about saving all year for this one small period of gifts. It just makes me so sad. Did you ever know anyone with a Christmas club?

Maggie 24:48

Know what I thought you were gonna say layaway because you’re talking oh my god and financing.

Amanda 24:53

That’s how my family got our Christmas shopping. That’s right layaway at Hills every

Maggie 24:59

year have no interest or whatever for the first month and like you’re financing gifts, that’s Yeah, going literally going into debt.

Amanda 25:09

My grandma had a layaway everywhere. And so since I was her favorite and her number one errand running partner, there was a several week period like in December where all I would do is go around town with her picking up her layaways. And we would the day that we would wrap all of the gifts, it would be like 10 hours of of just wrapping fueled by Pepperidge Farm coconut cake, like, just like sugar high, wrapping all of her gifts that she had put on layaway everywhere. I mean, my grandma loves Christmas, so I get it, but my grandma would be a great candidate for slow gifting.

Maggie 25:48

Yeah, I could definitely picture that like wrapping paper and tape and bows. And

Amanda 25:53

ah, it all adds up, right. And the thing is, like, we all work so hard for our money and living in 2022 in this world is very challenging as it is like, I don’t want us to be spending our money on things that people aren’t going to love, that are going to sit in a closet, they’re gonna go to a landfill. Like, we deserve better than that the people in our lives deserve better than that the planet deserves better than that. And honestly, our bank accounts deserve better than that. Right? I also just didn’t get to add, like we’ve already talked about this, we’ll probably talk about it 20,000 more times. No gifts is fun. Okay. Trust me. It’s great to for everybody to just save their money for something special to get themselves what they want or need to go on a trip like I you know, I’m gonna go to Japan. Do the same thing for the other people in your life. I will tell you, I’ve had conversations with people where I’m like, I don’t want to do gifts, and they are horrified. They think that I need more therapy, that perhaps my childhood has turned me into a rotten Scrooge of a human or is that I don’t trust them to pick out a good gift for me. But really what I’m genuinely saying is like, I have all the things don’t worry, like, get all the things for yourself, you know? Yeah, let’s let’s bake cookies, or sing songs or make decorations or do all these other things together. That’s gonna be way more fun than the like five seconds of unwrapping a package.

Maggie 27:21

They know. Yeah, exactly. Let’s spend some time together. You know?

Amanda 27:26

Yeah. That’s, I mean, like, even when I think about growing up, obviously, I’m sure you felt the same way. Like Christmas Eve was like, will I sleep tonight? Did your family open gifts on Christmas Eve or Christmas day?

Maggie 27:38

Usually Christmas Day, but we we often would open one on Christmas Eve we can totally meet.

Amanda 27:45

Yeah. Okay. All right. And you’d go to bed that night. And you’d be like, oh, gotta go to sleep. Gotta go to sleep, go to sleep. But like my brother and I would be up it would still be dark outside. Right? We’d open our gifts. I was always like really slow about it because I wanted to like see, for that feeling. I’m totally that person would only let myself scratch scratch and sniff stickers just a tiny bit every time. So they would last as long as possible. Oh, totally that person. But my brother would blaze through them and then we’d be done with the gifts and then it would be like oh, now what? I and the most fun Christmases that we ever had. Actually we all went to the movies and it’s like I remember the movies we went to see more than I do the gifts and just the experience of going to the movies with like all my cousins or something. It felt like so fun you know? So no gifts does not mean no fun or no happiness or no love or no good times I promise.

So explaining what slow gifting is was sort of like the first day of slow gifting and now we’re gonna move on to day two which is start early. Slow gifting takes time, hence the term slow. So it’s important that you start early. I, Maggie, did you ever have anyone in your family who started in like June or July?

Maggie 30:07

Oh, or even earlier than that, like, it’s springtime. Yeah. They see something. They, they grab it and then they like, hide it and sock it away until until December. Yeah.

Amanda 30:19

Which I like love. That’s me all year thrifting. Like, I have been accumulating my secondhand gifts all year. It’s hard for me to like, keep it a secret. That’s like the hardest part for me, I’m getting better at it. But I will be like, I can’t take it anymore. I’m just gonna give it to the now you know, I’ve definitely that person. But there is something like incredible about like December rolling around and you all you’re doing is like thinking about new ways to package all the sick gifts you already had, like thrifted. One excuse that I hear a lot for shopping secondhand, which I know you know very well is that you can’t just go to the store and get exactly what you want on the first try. Okay, it does happen sometimes, to be fair, but most of the time, it takes time, right? I I don’t know about you, Maggie. But like Dustin, I definitely have a lot of like weird superstitions about thrifting that I swear everyone does, like, Dustin feels that if you walk right into the thrift store and grab a cart, then you’re not going to find anything. So what you have to do is walk around until your hands are full, then get the cart and you will have a good thrifting. So he gets kind of like angry at me if I grab a cart because like I basically ruined dead, like we’re not going to find anything or other friends of mine are like, I can’t go with one specific thing in mind because it won’t be there. But if I don’t think of it when I walk in, it will be there. I don’t know if you’ve experienced similar superstitions? Yeah,

Maggie 31:49

I definitely think if you walk in with urgency, and there’s like this very explicit need that you have to fill. That’s time bound or like I need this thing for something this week. Yeah, probably not going to happen. At the same time, I think it’s imperative that you make a wish list before you walk through the door. Right. And also be open to like, I mean, be be strategic, make sure that anything you can possibly think of is on that list. Don’t forget anything. But also be open to like what, whatever, you’re not going to find everything on the list, you may only find one thing, but make sure you’re prepared. Just don’t go in with like expectations.

Amanda 32:34

That’s a great, great way to put it. Basically, second hand gifting is the best thing ever, but like you need to be working on it all year. Now. If you’re listening to this episode now and it’s November, this does not mean that the ship has sailed on finding secondhand gifts for people. But you’re just going to need to change up your strategy like you might need to buy more online

Maggie 32:57

or go to multiple. Yeah, multiple spots. Exactly.

Amanda 33:00

Like take a whole weekend where you focus on it. It’s kind of actually really fun. And it gives you that shopping montage from an 80s teen movie feeling without actually having to go to the mall.

Maggie 33:11

Thank goodness,

Amanda 33:12

thank goodness right. So that’s like secondhand shopping obviously takes some time. Also if you’re going to order from makers are artisans, Etsy sellers, order early, and I mean like right now to ensure online delivery and you’re gonna save yourself and almost kind of more importantly, the maker a ton of stress. Because every year the USPS, this is like their busiest time of year, the volume expands like exponentially because we’ve got gifts. We’ve got online shopping, we’ve got holiday cards, and I don’t know probably there’s hams right now on a mail truck somewhere someone’s shipping a ham, or those pears, gift baskets, all this stuff. It’s all coming. USPS UPS, FedEx and so like things slow down, and things can get lost. That’s why it’s really important to start now place those orders like as soon as you’re done listening this episode, if you were thinking about buying something from someone on Etsy or Instagram, go do it right now. And honestly, you’re gonna find spend December feeling very, very relaxed instead of everyday messaging them to be like did a ship yet you have tracking seriously. I think a lot of people learned that lesson the very hard way over the past few years. I recently received a package it is November of 2022. I received a package that I was supposed to receive in January of 2021. Just a few weeks ago. It was the craziest thing. My phone rang, and it was fed it said FedEx Lancaster and I was like well, that’s weird. That’s where I used to live. I’m like, That’s strange. Maybe they’re gonna offer me a job. And I answered and they were like, Oh, you’re not gonna believe this but we have this package that is addressed to you. That was sent USPS but Somewhere along the line, I just ended up at our FedEx facility. And I was like, Whoa, they were like, do you want it? And I was like, I guess, but I don’t know what it is because it was so long ago. And they sent it to me here in Texas. So yeah, you go. So order order now for sure. Also, like makers need time to order and receive supplies to make your gifts. So it can help them feel slightly less stressed if you order from them now. And another reason you want to get your slow gifting started, like right now is that if you’re going to be changing up your gift traditions, you need to have those conversations immediately. So some of these conversations are weird. Some of them might take a couple passes to get them, right. If you’re going to have whether that’s like a no gift holiday, or you want to defined boundaries around gifts, like nothing over $20, only second hand, no Amazon, any of your other values, you’ve got to have that conversation now. Like right now. And my advice there is to keep it short and simple. Like I’m not exchanging gifts this year, because I want to live a more sustainable lifestyle or any other reason you want to use and honestly, the one question I receive the most when we talk about gifting? Well, there are two. Okay, the first one is people saying I don’t know how to have conversations with my family about Amazon. Have you heard this from anyone before? Maggie? have you faced this dilemma?

Maggie 36:31

Not in my family. But I have had? Yeah, I’ve I’ve heard people talking about their concern, like having that conversation with with family members and loved ones. Yeah.

Amanda 36:41

Yeah. So I mean, I, I get it, I have found that, of course, everybody who knows me is like probably annoyed with what a social justice warrior I am, or whatever they call me behind my back. But when it comes to Amazon, to me, that’s actually like the easiest conversation to have. Because I’ll just say like, Hey, I read this series of articles in the New York Times about how Amazon treats its warehouse workers and its delivery people. And it just made me not want to support them anymore. So I’m not going to be buying gifts from Amazon. And I would love if you didn’t, either. That’s all you have to say. Maybe they want to know what articles you read or hear about what you read about. And that’s a great thing to say it too. But I think I respect that some people shop from Amazon, because it’s like the best option that they have. Right? I totally get that. And I’m not going to shame anyone for that. And it’s really important to me when I have conversations like this, that it doesn’t come from a place of judgment. It just comes from my heart, you know, and what matters to me. And so I think just being very straightforward about how it makes you feel is enough. You know, here’s the other question that I get the most from people. I’m and I’m worried if I tell people that I don’t want to exchange gifts, they will think that it’s because I can’t afford it. And the truth is, I can’t afford it. And that’s a feeling that I understand for sure. And I think that we’re all afraid to say that we are trying to save money or don’t have the money. Guess what, just say it just say it. Honestly, nothing settles the matter more than just being really straightforward about your needs, right, which is like, I can’t afford it to do gifts this year. And most people are gonna be like, Oh, okay, that’s cool. I get it, you know, most likely they’re feeling the same way. So, that sounds like a harder conversation than it’s gonna really be. It’s like once you do it, you feel so so much more relieved. And once again, if someone pushes back at you and says they say no to gifts, is anti holiday, or putting rolls around gifts, is anti holiday, I’d say no, it’s really about taking the focus away from shopping and stuff. And taking it back to the truly important part of the holidays, which is you know, building memories and spending quality time with the people you love the most or spoiling the pets in your lives. Which I really, Maggie, I’m afraid my cats are going to hear that you make the holidays about your pets and I’m gonna have to like do something about it.

Maggie 39:09

Oh, you’re welcome. No,

Amanda 39:13

I already get to spend about four weeks yelling at them like 70 times a day about the tree.

Maggie 39:20

Oh gosh.

Amanda 39:22

Do we put a hook in the ceiling but tree is attached to the ceiling? Oh, that’s

Maggie 39:26

so smart. If you have cats that is that’s really smart.

Amanda 39:30

It’s like a plant hook. It’s fine guys. It’s a plant hook add ratchet straps that’s been tested.

Maggie 39:36

This began that’s hardcore.

Amanda 39:39

Really big boy like he needs to treat these to be solid. But do you know no matter what your feelings about gifts and the ethics of the gifts you receive and give are important boundaries and there’s no shame in communicating them to others. The whole idea of early shopping or starting Chris, your holiday shopping early can get a little dodgy because what can happen is it can lead to over shopping. And then your my grandma going around town getting all your lay aways that you’ve been working on since July. You do not want to do that. And I will tell you retailers have been trying for years to get customers to start shopping for holidays earlier in earlier. Case in point I, when did you start seeing Christmas decorations out for sale? Maggie? I want to say it was before Halloween this year? For sure. Right? Yeah,

Maggie 40:33

I try to avoid retail environments. But I know like as far as media like I mean, yeah, as soon as Halloween is over, it’s literally November 1, like you start with the music and the ads and the same

Amanda 40:46

music. Yes. Yeah. No, it’s true. It’s true. I was at the grocery store the other day and Christmas music was playing and I was like, what? Because it’s also like, you know, going into like, low 80s here. I was like really? Like Wait, huh? I’m wearing sandals. What’s going on? It was so disorienting. Yeah, it disorienting. Um, because I definitely do not have there’s no chill in the air for me right now. Um, but yeah, like, I will tell you like I see the posts. Oh my gosh, like, there’s one subreddit that I follow. But it gives me a lot of anxiety where people snark about crafting, and it gets really dark sometimes when people were like, freaking out about going to Joanna Michaels and seeing Christmas stuff out there in like August or September. And I was like, here’s the deal. I mean, I didn’t say this, but like, it’s something I know far too well. They wouldn’t be putting it out, then if people weren’t buying it. That’s the thing. Maybe you’re not buying it. But someone is. And that is why they are putting Christmas stuff out in the summertime. Because someone’s like, oh my god, I gotta get it now, you know, which is so foolish at Joanne or Michaels because you know, there’s going to be a coupon coming. But definitely, this is why this stuff starts appearing earlier and earlier. And the reason that retailers want you to start shopping early is not because they want you to have a relaxing December, or that they want you to get the pick of the litter for the gifts for the people in your life. It is because their hope is that you just keep shopping for the rest of the year, that you’re like, oh my god, I’m just gonna keep buying more and more gifts and then stuff for myself. And there’s been this sort of like holiday creep for a long time with Black Friday and associated deals like i i have never waited in line for a Black Friday. So have you do you do you know people who do

Maggie 42:38

only when I was a journalist, I worked for the local newspaper and I was put on an assignment to capture the intensity of the moment like at this, like retail strip mall. But no, I’ve never gone as a consumer and waited in line. Hell no, no,

Amanda 42:56

there’s part of me that like wants to do it just like talk to people. But I also just like sleeping. So it’s like a trade off. I’m gonna sleep instead. But, you know, Black Friday used to really be this thing that literally only happened on the Friday after Thanksgiving. And then we slowly start to be like, okay, the whole week of Thanksgiving, we’re gonna have deals, special deals. And then it was like, okay, just for the two weeks around Thanksgiving, we’re gonna have deals. And then it was like, I want to say the Amazon was starting in October this year. Like, it’s like, it’s a whole season of deals, you know, and it’s designed to just get you to keep shopping and like not think about it. But to get caught up in the rush of deals all the time. I actually did some research last year, that found that people who start shopping earlier as in like, well, before Thanksgiving, will spend 23% More than people who wait until after Thanksgiving. This is the reason why we see the product arriving earlier in the stores and the sales starting earlier because you will buy more than you need. Retail knows that, don’t they? They know that they know it. Yeah, yeah. We’re going to talk more about Black Friday and a few and all these other deals because like the deals are coming. I feel like the moment like the clock past 11:59pm on Halloween, suddenly my inbox was just flooded with like all the deals already. And it’s been like nonstop, like retailers I didn’t even know I subscribed to suddenly like sending me deals. And like listen, there’s nothing wrong with like, you know, finding a good price on something that you wanted or needed. But it’s important to stay organized. So you’re not getting like caught up. In all the excitement, the rush of the deals,

Maggie 44:48

gift yourself the gift of unsubscribing to like there’s serious nothing wrong with that.

Amanda 44:54

Unsubscribe, unfollow, do all the things protect yourself, you know. All right. So the third day, a slow gifting is shopping small. And there are many very good data points to encourage you to shop small to small businesses have a major impact on their communities. According to the US Small Business Administration, when you spend $100, at a small business $48 stays in the community. If you took that same $100, to a big box store, like to Target or Best Buy, or what, even Amazon, only $14 stays in the community. And that’s bad, you know, like, we want this money to be circulated in our community so we can create these robust economies. Also, this was really interesting to me, as someone who’s been laid off by several large companies in my career, small businesses create jobs in a way that big businesses do not since 1995, more than half of the jobs in the United States were created by small businesses. I thought that was amazing. So huge impact. Yeah, it’s a huge impact. Small businesses redistribute wealth. I mean, I cannot emphasize that enough. We already know they’re hiring people. They’re keeping money in their community. But right now, I mean, we know this, a few huge companies rake in most of the money, Amazon, Walmart, Zara, et cetera. And they make billionaires of their founders and CEOs and pay lots, lots of other money to their shareholders. Imagine breaking up that wealth into hundreds of 1000s of small businesses instead, because I think we all can agree that we don’t need billionaires. I’m not really sure what billionaires do for the world other than, like, make elections dodgy and buy Twitter and do things with Twitter, we don’t need them. What we need is a lot of people living good, healthy, happy, productive lives. And that really, really breaking up big business is a major part of that. I cannot emphasize enough that it’s too late for the biggest companies out there to magically transform into sustainable ethical brands. Because exploitation and waste are built into their business model, like Amazon is a prime example. And I’m not like, oh my god, did you hear that? Pon? Amazon is a prime example. Oh, that was good. Dang, brought to you by Amazon. Now. Amazon is a great example. Even though I’m not picking on them. It’s just like really transparent. Because I think in the past couple years, I like to think we’ve learned more and more about how dysfunctional that company is, and how bad they are to their employees, like in all regards, whether like corporate employees, people working in the warehouses, the delivery people who are like peeing in bottles, because they can’t take bathroom breaks, we now know in a pretty mature way that Amazon is not good to the people who work there. And I also just would say that like a lot of the stuff you buy from Amazon is, for lack of a better adjective, often really janky. Right? It’s like disappointing, where it’s like knockoff, or whatever. I think by now we’re starting to realize that like we, for Amazon to function, and be this massive company, it has to kind of like dispose of its ethics, right. And that’s just baked into the entire business model of Amazon. It’s always going to prioritize profits over people, getting to them to change their ways would mean literally dismantling the entire company and rebuilding it. And that’s just not going to happen. But small businesses can constantly make changes, to be more sustainable, to be more ethical to be an important part of their communities. Because they are small, they have that freedom to pivot. The analogy that I always like to use is about like turning around a bike is really easy that sort of small businesses. But turning around a cruise ship, that’s big business. Like from what I’ve heard, it can take a day or several days to turn a cruise ship around for in the case of big business, we’re talking like decades, you know, I just think it’s so important that we shop small whenever we can, even though sometimes, like I’m willing to admit it is not as convenient as getting on an app on your phone and having vitamins and cat food and ring lights and whatever else you order showing up later that day. Like I get that. But I also think that we need to accept that perhaps convenience is not a human right.

Maggie 49:23

Definitely a privilege.

Amanda 49:24

Definitely a privilege, right. But I do think that our sense of like convenience, or or what is inconvenient has been really skewed in the past couple decades. Like I was thinking about, I mean, you know this when you were a kid and you wanted to get a book at the library, you’d have to go to the card catalog and like pull out a drawer and like look it up and be like okay, it’s on shelf seven a and I gotta go find that right, but like now, you don’t have to do things like that. But is that inconvenience to go on that search? Not necessarily.

Maggie 49:54

No, I think our standards have changed and spans over.

Amanda 49:59

Yeah, Yeah, I remember when I was a teenager the thing that kept being thrown out there is that like thanks to MTV, all the young people had no attention span. And I am like, you just wait. Because right now we’re still watching the same video for five minutes. Wait until like, videos are 30 seconds long on tick tock, just me. Okay, so let’s talk about where and how to find small businesses, because I think this is like a sticking point for a lot of people. They’re like, I don’t know, how to shop small. Um, it does take a little bit more effort, I guess I would say it’s a little it’s about as inconvenient as using a card catalog. You know, first off, it’s like checkout at your friends and family because there are definitely small businesses within your circle. Like Maggie, How many friends do you think that you have that own a small business?

Maggie 50:52

1215 20

Amanda 50:55

a lot. Right? So start with them, right? Because then you’re like actually seeing the money make an impact right in front of your eyes. I personally love a gift to pop up a craft fair flea markets. This is the time of year for that bazaars. I also love the word bizarre. Yeah, it sounds like so much more elegant, right? Going into the bizarre. You can also find small businesses online. And it’s not that hard. Instagram, Etsy, D, pop witchy, all these other online platforms where you are buying something from a person that is shopping small. Google Maps is a great place like I think if you’re specifically looking for gift cards, gift certificates to restaurants, cafes, salons, other services, Google Maps is your friend. And I would also just say like, ask your friends for suggestions, too. I think we all follow a lot of small businesses on social media, but sometimes thanks to the algorithm. And I guess our low attention spans, we might forget, if your city has a free weekly newspaper, they are always filled with gift guides and local business suggestions at this time of year. It’s like a tradition. You know, can you think of any other places things I missed? Ways to find small businesses?

Maggie 52:11

Not? Not really, I was just thinking like, local, right? Like the closer to home you can get? I mean, you there might be one right outside your door, right? Like within blocks of where you live? Yeah, look, look around you. And even when you’re doing searches online, you know, whoever the gift recipient is, like, narrow it down to their community and see what Yeah,

Amanda 52:37

definitely, especially if you’re gonna like get them. I think it’s always nice to get on Google maps look up, like where the recipient lives and find an awesome restaurant or bakery or cafe near them and get them a gift certificate for their because they might not treat themselves to that on their own. And it feels like, wow, this person really knows me and cares about me what you do. So like, do that, you know. So the other thing I hear a lot is like, listen, I would love to shop small. But I don’t have any money. A feeling I understand far too well. But you can support small business without spending any money at all. You know, one is recommending your favorite small businesses to friends. Using Vikram to its full potential by liking, Saving, and Sharing posts from your favorite makers, sellers and small brands, also commenting on their posts, tagging friends, I kind of love at this time of year, and I encouraged us so much for people to sort of start, like we all have so much influence on the people around us like start kind of creating your own gift guides and stories to like brands you think are really cool that people should shop. I think that that is awesome. And I love when I see friends of mine doing that because I’m like, oh, note it, I’m going to get the mat or I’m going to check this business out. Because small businesses don’t have a marketing budget, particularly that a lot of these big brands have we don’t see them on social media, unfortunately. Right. And one way we can see them is by sharing them with other people. Also, I don’t know about you, Maggie, but I love reading Google reviews. It’s like, kinda one of my favorite things to do. Just as a hobby. Just to unwind read some reviews of a local restaurant. So if you’ve shopped at or visited a business IRL, please leave a nice review for them on Google Maps. People like me, we fall for it all the time. I can’t I can’t go somewhere that doesn’t have some great reviews. So do you share the love? If even if you’ve only bought something from them one time ever, and it was three years ago, just talking about how great it’s a great reminder

Maggie 54:49

and I also want to share like there’s definitely two or three businesses that I want to review like before the end of this year. So but also as a small business owner I I can tell you, when I get a notification that someone has left me a five star Google review or any review, like honestly, you know, I’m like, it’s the best for you and makes my entire week so, it it’s huge.

Amanda 55:13

Yeah it really, really is.

Now, the moment we’ve both been waiting for, it’s the fourth day of slow gifting it is secondhand gifts. Secondhand gifts are not gross. Can we just start with that? Isn’t it weird that like people, I think more and more people are getting into secondhand shopping. But they draw the line at giving someone a secondhand gift. You know why? Like? I don’t know, I don’t know. But have you I hear this from people. And it’s like, I don’t know, if they’re like worried that the person would be grossed out by it or think they’re being cheap. I think that we worry way too much about things that no one who receives that gift is going to think, you know, I think that people do pick gifts because they want to like, create an image of themselves as well. It’s very, it’s a very complicated thing. But I can assure you, if you give someone a second hand gift, they’re just gonna know you’re like really cool and thoughtful. So when I talk about secondhand anything on social media, everyone, their mind goes straight to thrift stores, which is true, it is a place that you can find secondhand gifts. But there are so many other places and I just I have to take a moment and say how much I love an antique mall. I thought that antique malls were fair, like I don’t know, like Martha Stewart, like wealthy ladies who had a shabby chic home, right. But actually most antique malls are booths that are just individual sellers, individual small businesses selling secondhand stuff. I think the word antique implies. I don’t know, like Louis, the 14th furniture sophistication

Maggie 1:02:54

or something. Right, right.

Amanda 1:02:57

Yeah, but really, it’s just a great place to find a lot of curated secondhand stuff all at once. I love antique mall, and they’re generally pretty affordable.

Maggie 1:03:07

There’s another version of it. They’re called peddlers malls. It’s the exact exact same format and the same kind of like layout. But I think it’s more of a regional reference. So if antique is a little too fancy, you can totally look up peddlers malls.

Amanda 1:03:25

I love the word peddler it feels so like. I don’t know, like 18 hundred’s, you know, like just a different time when people are peddling gangs peddling their wares. Also, like, I didn’t get to do this this year, because Austin has not been the shining beacon of yard sales that our lives in central Pennsylvania were. But let me tell you, I found a lot of awesome gifts last year at yard sales. Estate Sales, the same thing. I will tell you if you are looking for things that have never been used, and probably are like vintage yard sales are great for that. Because that’s where people put out all the gifts that they got that they did. That’s right.

Maggie 1:04:16

That’s right. Yeah, so

Amanda 1:04:19

just saying I’ve definitely bought stuff at yard sales. And the person was like, wait, you really want that and I’m like, Are you kidding me? I’ve been looking for this my whole life and like crying tears of joy. And there was one yard sale last year where I was like, Oh my gosh, I’m sorry. We’re buying so much just like we’re doing your Christmas shopping and I think they felt sorry for me. But like if you saw all the cool stuff we found they were like the best gifts ever. I’m sorry. Yeah. So yard sales and other one flea markets love a flea market. vintage stores, obviously. And then of course there are the online platforms Etsy Macari Depop Poshmark Vinted Facebook marketplace. Man, I have been hearing so many heartwarming stories of amazing gifts found on Facebook marketplace. Like, if medic goes bankrupt or whatever happens, if Facebook marketplace goes away, we’re all going to cry. We’re all going to

Maggie 1:05:15

be a big loss for sure. I found some pretty badass things on marketplace.

Amanda 1:05:19

Yeah, seriously. It’s so great. This year for our wedding anniversary, I really wanted to get Dustin some really nice glassware for making drinks. Because he has been since the beginning of the pandemic, very into making tropical drinks, aka what some people cut tiki drinks, but we are trying to move away from that because we think like, well, we love a tropical drink. We don’t like the cultural appropriation and you know, racism, that’s a part of a lot of the traditional like Tiki culture, including a lot of the glassware right. So I really wanted to find him special glasses for the various kinds of drinks that we are making, that weren’t, didn’t have any of that kind of iconography. And I will tell you, it took me a long time, I did a lot of research, I had many screenshots and save tabs and all kinds of things. But I was able to get two sets of glasses that are incredible. One came from eBay. And they’re like tall glasses with all these like different tropical scenes painted on them. They’re from like the late 60s, early 70s. And when you put them in a row, they show a full, like panorama. Oh my gosh. And then for the smaller glasses, I got him these like acrylic, they’re also like late 60s, early 70s cups that look like they’re bamboo. But they’re plastic. And they’re more for like, you know, like a whiskey or a small drink, like that kind of thing. And those came from Etsy, you know, you know, you can find amazing things on online platforms, and you can definitely like, comparison shop, it’s actually kind of fun, you know, it’s like research, right, which I love. Um, and yeah, it was really exciting to give them to him. And every time I drink out of one of them, I feel just like so happy. And like, you know, there was an example of me having a really specific vision, a specific deadline, which was our anniversary, and you know, a pretty specific budget and I was able to make it all work. That’s an example of how successfully you can curate some online gifts. Okay, so let’s talk about gift ideas. I group these by types of people, but I know you’re gonna have even more ideas, Maggie. So first off and this is like where I see myself as a gift recipient is the people in your life who love to decorate and entertain that is me. So vintage barware and glassware. There is so much good stuff out there from all periods of time and aesthetics dishes, cute salt and pepper shakers. A fondue set is a great gift. That’s something if you go to yard sales, someone’s gonna have an unopened fondue set. Yeah. Yeah. And give that person some cheese or a recipe book or some chocolate or something like make a whole thing out of it. Cool coffee table books, unique coasters. placemats fabric napkins, interesting napkin rings, these are all things I see secondhand shopping all the time. Home Decor books of any era are also out there whether your friends really into mid century modern or is like totally Laura Ashley 80s Cottage Hoard. You can find these books I know because I have them. Also vintage cocktail recipe books. One of our first tropical cocktail recipe books actually came from a yard sale and it has a wooden cover. It’s so cool like it’s made of wood.

Maggie 1:08:44

Oh wow.

Amanda 1:08:45

Very very cool. thank you notes and greeting cards. I love to like go to all the like little paper craft sections of thrift stores and kind of assemble these and then put them together as like one package for someone like by color. Oh theme that is fine. Right. Vintage linens towels potholders trivets it is all out there.

Maggie 1:09:08

Yeah, so what about your super stylish friend so if Amanda as in the people who love to decorate and entertain category, this is definitely my category. Noted and I wouldn’t say also as a stylist, which we’ll we’ll talk about this a little bit later. Like gifting clothing is really really tricky. So what might you get a super stylish friend that isn’t clothing. There are other wearables besides clothes, so jewelry and scarves come to mind. I’ll say it’s really important to be mindful of like metal allergies and skin sensitivities, especially with costume jewelry, and some people have nickel allergy, for example. I would also caution against rings. Just because it’s a size.

Amanda 1:09:59

Yeah Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s like one of the reasons I am like not into buying people clothing. Because the size thing makes I mean also just like personal feelings about clothing like makes it so complicated. It’s just not worth it. Yeah, exactly. Don’t do it. Yeah,

Maggie 1:10:15

avoid it. purses, they don’t have a size, right? Those are pretty universal, but any kind of bag makeup bags, tote bags, especially if they’re in colors or like motifs or have iconography that you know, the recipient loves. They’re going to freak out. They could it was picked just for them, which is the goal. Yeah, luggage overnight bags, backpacks, Fanny packs, oh my gosh, I’m sure thrift stores and vintage shops are loaded with those right now.

Amanda 1:10:47

So many I can I can vouch for you. I have seen many fanny packs recently.

Maggie 1:10:53

A fancier like, you know, upscale brands that maybe they they couldn’t afford to buy brand new, you see a lot of these and thrift thrift stores and those antique mall kind of environments. Okay, the label. If you know, it’s a brand that they have like an affinity for, that would be a really cool gift. I love this idea, Amanda cute mirror. Especially vintage, I actually have an heirloom set. It’s like a hand mirror, a comb and brush. And it’s silver. And it’s really, really fancy. It’s like, like I said, it’s an heirloom, right? So this is three generations old. And I just, it’s the coolest thing. It’s gonna last forever.

Amanda 1:11:40

I love that. And that’s something that someone’s not going to buy for themselves, right? You know, but it’s going to be so delighted to receive

Maggie 1:11:49

organizational types of containers for things like makeup brushes and products, like and I’ll say be creative about this, especially when you’re buying secondhand, right? Like, you’re not going to necessarily encounter things that are marketed as you know, this is a makeup brush holder. So like old vases, or tins and ceramic containers, vases, things like that are great for those purposes. This is a little bit frivolous, and like, not the most practical or useful gift, but I just learned about it. And I was like, instantly obsessed when I saw it. It’s kind of like a music box. So it’s about that interactive element. But it’s a lipstick. Kara. So

Amanda 1:12:36

okay, tell me more. This seems so glam. Yeah, it’s

Maggie 1:12:39

very much a rare vintage gem kind of fine. Like if you find one, you got to get it. There’s got to be someone in your life that would love this as a gift. And that’s basically like a, you know, it looks like a music box. So it rotates but it has these as it turns. There’s like a little panel that opens to reveal a little slot. It’s big enough for a tube of lipstick, and a long, little mirror so that you can like pick the lipstick out and apply it as it’s turning. It’s just a really cool thing. How another vintage item. Again, this is for your stylish friend, right Chateau lanes are pretty amazing little things. Again, not the most like useful or practical. But if you’re if your friend is stylish, if they love anything vintage and retro, they will likely appreciate a shadow lane. They come in different sizes and they can be worn as jewelry, which is cool. But each one I’ve ever seen is like unique sometimes there’s a tiny pair of scissors and a thimble.

Amanda 1:13:45

Love these so

Maggie 1:13:47

they’re really cool. Jewelry trees. So you know, this could be something that just like some sort of wire element, you know, standalone element, maybe it’s not marketed as a jewelry holder, but could accommodate like necklaces and bracelets. And again, like metal containers with lids, whether they’re velvet lined or not old boxes, like wooden boxes with glass tops, ceramic containers, all of those are really great things for storing jewelry, little kind of keepsakes.

Amanda 1:14:26

And I see so many amazing versions of all of these things everywhere I go, because they were such a common gift in the past. You know they’re out there in the world and I’m sure you could buy some of these things new but they’re just not going to be as special you know, there’s just something I mean, I’m gonna say this like probably 10,000 More times but there is something so special about a secondhand gift because it really shows the care and the thought that you put into it. Just like so amazing. Okay, so I’m going to talk about another person that I definitely am when it comes to gifts and I is a gift tactic that I take a lot is nostalgia lovers. So really appealing to things that remind people of maybe their childhood or very specific times in their lives or even times that I knew them or first met them or memories that we share together. So yeah, old issues of favorite magazine seriously, if you want to show your love for me, send me a copy of sassy because I’m trying to track them.

Maggie 1:15:32

alloyed your rubber alley, I assured

Amanda 1:15:35

you you can also send me an ally ally or Delia’s catalog can also be beyond that would be very excited. favorite childhood toys are also great. Last year, Dustin found a vintage from the 80s Strawberry Shortcake doll for me. And that just made me so so happy. Records are great if you like someone in your life like has a record player or like is really into records. This one can be a little challenging if they’re a hardcore collector like I personally would not buy a record for Dustin because he’s way too snobby. But I would probably buy a record for Dylan. Nostalgic, young adult books. Seriously, I’ve given away so many copies of like baby sitters club and Judy Blume books over the years that I have thrifted and I always make people smile. Vintage logo apparel like specifically, this is where I don’t think you should buy people clothes, but if you saw, like an Asprey sweatshirt, or, like I don’t know some other brand your friend was really into in high school, and you found it thrifting or secondhand, like I say go for it because they’re gonna love it even if it doesn’t fit super well. Um, also, I would say vintage signs and ads can be really cool, especially if you like frame them in a cool frame that you can also shop secondhand, original vintage and tasteful reproductions of favorite childhood icons. And I know Maggie, you have someone a celebrity an icon that you love. Yeah,

Maggie 1:17:16

one of the best secondhand gifts I’ve ever received is this. I don’t know when it was made maybe the 70s It’s a vintage miss piggy piggy bank. She lives on my mantel. She’s got a couple pieces of loose change in her but she’s really just there to like, look beautiful and remind me of how amazing she is. It’s like a It’s a hallmark of our like home decor is piggy bank love

Amanda 1:17:44

it. I see a lot of that kind of stuff. There was definitely a trend I would say in the 70s and 80s force like ceramicist like local ceramicist to make reproduction banks of these characters like Miss Piggy and Strawberry Shortcake and other characters as well because I have a bunch of them sitting on my front porch. And now if I see another Miss Piggy Bank, I can’t buy it. But it’s good to know that Maggie would be a good gift for you. But I see these quite often. And anytime I show someone a picture of one that I’ve seen or found they are beyond, so I’m sure that they would love to receive one for themselves. And the same can go for all kinds of toys. Man, sometimes my favorite part of an antique mall is there’s always a few booths that are really focused on toys. And man, just the memories and in some of these toys, I’m like I want I want them all but like I obviously don’t have a place for them. Like I would say if I ever had a much bigger house. And more time on my hands I would love to have a room where one wall was just shelves that had all of the little people houses the Fisher Price Little People houses I know what a dream right? And I know other people love things like that, too. So you know these these are great gift ideas also books by authors that you know that your friend likes? Or maybe you is like it’s a really important book for you that you know that they would like I really high wreck like secondhand books. I think like shopping secondhand books is sort of the gateway and to the secondhand first lifestyle. And so I think especially if you can find a book with like a really cool cover, like I mean obviously a book that you know that they want to read, but that has is an addition with a really cool cover. That can also be an amazing gift and no one’s going to be like oh, a second handbook. And if they are you should probably stop talking to them. Yeah.

Maggie 1:19:44

Get some new friends. Exactly.

Amanda 1:19:46

Get some new friends. Exactly. All right, your turn. Honestly,

Maggie 1:19:50

I consider myself in this category to the crafty people in your life. We’ve all got a crafty friend or maybe multiple crafty friends right they’re always boil lot Yeah, they’ve got some kind of creative project going at all times. These are probably the people who are making gifts for you for the holidays. So what are some gift ideas secondhand gift ideas for them sewing notions like fabrics and trims. So when we say notions if you’re not a member of the sewing community, this might not be familiar to you. notions are all the things we’re talking yeah straight pins and needles and bobbins and symbols and safety pins and all the things so sewing notions fabrics and trims, oh my gosh, like the volume of vintage trims and fabrics that you can find, just like we were talking about the, like the stationery and paper kind of aisle in the thrift store. There’s always a little corner with craft stuff and you’re gonna find fabric remnants and trims, unopened craft kits.

Amanda 1:20:58

So many. Yeah, many unopened craft kits. It makes me sad.

Maggie 1:21:04

Pay attention because if they’re like, ancient, you know, especially if it’s like a paint set or something. They might not work but things like color pencils, markers, really nice pins. This is these are gifts that people get and ended up donating to the thrift store right that they didn’t really want

Amanda 1:21:22

always when I see those kits, because I like I personally love a secondhand latch hook kit. And latch hook is great because it’s one of those things that you can do without like a ton of skill or even paying attention. So you can like watch a movie and suddenly you’ve got a wall hanging of Garfield, right? It happens. I see so many of those kids on opened at thrift stores. And I think it’s because they were gifts and people were like you I don’t want to Garfield walking, which is a red flag. But they’re out there. And I think that they are a great gift to you and can be fun for people who have like a lot of nostalgia.

Maggie 1:21:58

Yeah. Especially people who like to do creative things. You’re crafty friends, right? Yeah, so we’re talking about secondhand books for your nostalgia loving friends. This is another area that works really well for crafty people so old, you know, vintage secondhand crafting and sewing books, sewing baskets, and knitting bags. These are any baskets, any bags, but there are ones that are specific for sewing and knitting. To hold all their notions hold all their goodies, right? Needles, hooks and yarn for knitters and crochet errs. Certainly, scrapbooking supplies.

Amanda 1:22:39

So many of those. Have you ever been involved in scrapbooking?

Maggie 1:22:43

No, I was just thinking that like it’s something that was kind of interesting to me at times, but I’ve never like gone down the rabbit hole. However, I had a friend in college who he just he was kind of a collector of things anyway. And he had this giant collection of vintage postage stamps that he ended up gifting to me. And they some of them were like, actual, you know, like, you could have mailed a letter with them back in the day. But some of them were like, more novelty collector’s items there were like they weren’t National Geographic produce, but it was like different species of animals and birds and just like really cool plants and things. Yeah, and I I ended up framing them like I put them in collections and then frame the collections that ended up being really cool day four. So that that’d be an idea for a crafty friend. Right?

Amanda 1:23:44

I yeah, I think that’s an amazing idea. stamps and

Maggie 1:23:48

ink. That’s a really good idea too. That kind of fits in with scrapbooking. But like anyone who likes to put a personalized note, handwritten note together stamps stunning, because great.

Amanda 1:23:59

Oh my gosh, there’s so many you know, a couple years ago, I was like, I want to get some horse stamps. So I can send out when I send out you know, mail related to clothes or I can put a horse stamp on it right? And you would think like, oh, well you know, the the curse of thrifting is like, you know, you go in with an idea and you often don’t find it right away. And I’m going to tell you first thrift store I go into I roll into the craft section, easily 20 horse stamps to choose from should How did you pick? It was it was difficult. I mean, there was like hand wringing like Dustin was there we had, we narrowed it down and we were like, Okay, now we have these, like, what do we think is next? I mean, that is just how many horse stamps there were so many ink pads that no one had ever used. That were like still sealed. I mean, such a bummer. I think that people crafting is one of those things where people are like, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna get into crafting. I’m gonna change my life, right? Then they get the stuff and they’re like, oh shit, I’m too busy surviving. I can’t do these crafts. Yeah, they end up at the thrift store or the yard sale or wherever.

Maggie 1:25:00

So that’s a good point Amanda actually like something that is true about crafty people, they would love any and all of these things on this list. But also like, don’t get all the things on the list, you know, don’t overwhelm them. Because chances are, they’ve got part of a room or a dedicated space of some kind that’s just like all these craft supplies that they had great intentions of using and never be strategic and thoughtful. You know, think small, and

Amanda 1:25:31

themed. You can you can very easily put together a little like gift bag, gift basket gifted whatever you want to use as your vessel of like, this is the stuff you need to make a horse themed notebook or something, you know, it has to be horse themed is like the only rule now.

Maggie 1:25:50

For you right as the crafty person, lover of nostalgia,

Amanda 1:25:55

where’s their cat gifts only right?

Maggie 1:25:59

So we’ve talked about clothing and apparel being a bit of a no no. Yeah, vintage sewing patterns are a great way to go for things that are not clothing like aprons right apron pattern to be really cool. So good. Plus, like digging through the the totes or baskets or whatever they have them stored in at the thrift store. Right it varies. Digging through them is a fun exercise to find the right one for

Amanda 1:26:29

fine. Yeah, yeah. And wow, there are so many patterns at every store. I go to so many

Maggie 1:26:37

tote bag patterns, you’re probably going to find instructions on how to make rag rugs out of like fabric scraps and remnants. Photo albums this is kind of like in the scrapbooking neighborhood too. But whether it’s themed or associated with scrapbooks or not like empty unused photo albums can be repurposed and upcycled into so many different kinds of things that they could read gift potentially even.

Amanda 1:27:06

Yeah, yeah, circular gifting. I like that.

Maggie 1:27:12

lock boxes, or like I was talking about earlier with a stylish friend like jewelry type of boxes, wooden vintage tin boxes, or baskets that you can fill with things like homemade cookies, or sewing and craft notions. Also journals, maybe not necessarily with the intended purpose of being a traditional journal, but a lot of crafters, I know and soloists and designers, they take notes as they’re, you know, doing their projects. And it’s like, this is a way to keep track of what’s working, what’s not maybe the materials list that they need. Journals and notebooks are really really great gifts for crafty folks,

Amanda 1:27:56

they really are there because because the potential is endless. Seriously. And there are a lot of those two at all the thrift stores I go to. So next are the home chefs, which I definitely fancied myself a home chef, not to brag, but I do cook a full on dinner most days. Um, cooking is like one of my favorite things to do. Because one, it’s kind of instant gratification. And to for me, it helps divide my daytime work from whatever comes after that, right. It’s like my time to myself to listen to podcasts or NPR and just like make something you know. Um, so I have found that a lot of people specifically millennials, and Gen Z are like, we don’t have a lot of great kitchen stuff. Because we maybe are just learning how to cook or we’re forced to cook during the pandemic and are trying to get it down. And wow, there are so many amazing kitchen things. And every secondhand store I visit so one if you can find some les crueset Buy that because you’re gonna make someone’s day, I would say the same thing with anything cast iron. I bought an amazing cast iron griddle for my stove a couple of years ago for 10 bucks at the thrift store and I use it almost every day. Because I can flip it on one side and like grilled tofu and vegetables, or flip it the other way and make like case videos or pancakes or something. Oh definitely. If someone had given that to me as a gift, I would have like wept tears of joy and thought of them constantly for giving me such a great gift. Um, unique serving dishes and utensils. If you’re gonna get into cooking, you start you reach a point where you’re like now I’m gonna get hung up on presentation especially if you’ve spent the pandemic watching a lot of Master Chef you’re gonna get hung up on plating. So these are great gifts for people as well. Vintage tea towels, always a great gift especially if it’s like, like they’re the ones that you that you will see that are calendars from years and If you know the gift recipients like year of birth, that’s a great gift to find them that towel from that year. I see a lot of those when I’m out secondhand shopping. Let me tell you about small appliances. There are so many specific very specific small appliances that are a life upgrade that people have been gifted and never used. And I have been proud to swoop in and buy them and use them. And that includes food dehydrators you have not lived until you’ve made your own dried mango. It is so good blenders. need those if you’re gonna have tropical drinks anyway, ice cream makers. Okay, this is the one that I don’t have. And that is I’m upset with myself about it because I actually a few years ago, saw the ice cream maker that goes with my KitchenAid mixer at a thrift store. And I second guessed myself that maybe I wouldn’t make enough ice cream to make it worthwhile. And now I think about it all the time. So, ice cream agar is another thing that people wouldn’t buy it for themselves, but we would probably be pretty stoked to have if they are a person who loves making that kind of stuff. Right. emphasis here is on small and useful things like remember, breadmakers people not loving breadmakers. Maybe skip that unless your friend really does love some bread, like low key. I kind of wish I had a bread maker because Dustin loves bread. Be great to be like surprise, I made you this loaf. But I didn’t do any work at all, you know, cookbooks. I mean, I feel like we’ve talked about books in almost every category so far. But man, there are so many good cookbooks to be found thrifting and I am actually a collector of cookbooks. As for them. I collected both like mid century. I really love 50 6070s cookbooks, for the photography, not specifically for the recipes. But I also really love contemporary cookbooks that are like, specific to genres of food that I like. And I have been surprised by how many of them I have been able to find thrifting even like I really wanted, like, you know, the classic Martha Stewart cookbook and I found one that I swear I had never even been opened. Nice. Yeah, so I love a cookbook and listen, yes, you can get recipes on your phone. I’ve had this conversation with other people. But there is something about having the cookbook open right there in front of you. Making that recipe loving it and putting a bookmark in there and revisiting it all the time. I do that so often. Pyrex and casserole dishes now this, this stuff can get spendy there’s a big collector’s market in there. You don’t have to get someone a full set. But even to get them one nice casserole dish with a glass lid is a great gift that they’ll use all the time. You obviously want to avoid pieces with signs of deterioration, like cracking or pitting of the glaze. However, there have been rumors going around the internet. I know because many people have reached out to me about them over the years, that vintage Pyrex and other dishware contain unsafe levels of lead. And I have news for you that Snopes did a bunch of research into the vintage Pyrex claim and it was debunked. So vintage Pyrex is safe to use just wants to get in like you don’t want it to be cracking or chipping or like basically you don’t want your your loved ones to be getting little pieces of ceramic in their mouths when they’re eating right. So you want to get one that’s in good shape. And I think you would do that anyway, but just like throwing it out there. If you are concerned about lead in vintage dishes, or silverware, etc. I did a lot of research into this a few months ago because someone asked me on Instagram. And when it comes to utensils like forks, knives, spoons serving spoons, I recommend going for real silver, which sounds I know so bougie. But actually, you would be surprised about the sheer volume and low price of real silver at thrift stores and antique malls. And then plus you can be like, Oh, I’m polishing my silver wood. It sounds so luxurious, right? And then in terms of like other dishware if you’re really stressed about that, you can buy these little LED swabs that are very inexpensive and give you instant results. So if that’s something you’re concerned about to race, so that’s home chefs. That was a lot. Okay, the last thing that we wanted to talk about is all the important finishing touches, which are things like a basket wrapping paper gift bags, bows, greeting cards, ribbon, artificial flowers, what else did I miss here? There’s like, all the things, all the things. Why is there so much wrapping paper at the thrift store? There always is and always bags of bows. Have you noticed this? Yeah. Yeah, and baskets man booth.

Maggie 1:34:50

There’s usually a whole aisle of baskets. No one

Amanda 1:34:53

should ever buy a new basket again for at least the next 10 years so we can let the basket economy read said it’s

Maggie 1:35:00

Oh, yeah, you’ve got a surplus right now. No Sure. Yeah.

Amanda 1:35:04

I also love a tin, especially if you’re gonna bake for other people. And there’s always a plethora of tins,

Maggie 1:35:10

Christmas themed and otherwise, yeah, yeah.

Amanda 1:35:13

And tins are great because they’re reusable. And so I found so many great tins on my yard zillion ventures that like I look he have a supply in the cabinet for when I’m going to make food for someone as a gift. And you know, if they don’t give it back, that’s okay. But most of the time they do because not because I asked but because they’re like, Wow, this 10 was so cute. I just, I just want you to have it back. Like, thank you. So much better than using a plastic bag or anything disposable, right? Like, these tins are the gift that keeps giving. And I I know because I’ve done this myself that you can wrap and present all of your holiday gifts without buying a single new piece of wrapping paper ribbon or anything you might, you might need some scotch tape that’s about it.

Maggie 1:36:04

Yeah, I’ve heard of people using like fabric like from their fabric stash or like totally vintage sheets, even like that they cut up in and wrapped and sort of using paper or something disposable. There’s no limit, like, and you actually don’t have to wrap it, whatever the gift is you don’t necessarily have to

Amanda 1:36:28

I one thing I did one year ago, I had a really special gift for someone that was really, it wasn’t really big, but it was going to be difficult to wrap and so I put a blanket over it. And I was like, okay, like drum roll. And then like we made a drum roll and then I ripped the blanket. And it was very exciting. That so you don’t you don’t need to wrap. I don’t rap. I don’t know how many times you’ve been laid out like family Christmas or whatever. And there’s a trash bag. They’re just getting filled as people unwrapped gifts. It’s just such a bummer. Such a bummer.

Maggie 1:37:05

So much waste. The best wrapping, I should tell you this the best one of the best gifts I’ve ever received from a friend was a shop vac. Like how profitable oh my

Amanda 1:37:15

god, you told me about this before and I was jealous because you don’t know how good life can be until you have a shop back.

Maggie 1:37:23

I mean, I had it. I had it for over 10 years. Like I think I just retired it in the last year or two. But they they did not wrap it. They put one little bow on the outs like the top outside of the box. And I just I thought that was perfect.

Amanda 1:37:38

I love that. And yeah, like wow, we found a we found a shop back at a yard sale a few years ago and man game changer I guess that means you’re an adult when you are so pumped on a shop back. But yeah, that’s a really great gift. So something you brought up, which I think is I really want us to discuss is the concept of re gifting and removing the stigma. I think that and I might be remembering this wrong. I think there was an episode of Seinfeld about re gifting that really stigmatized more. But I want to hear your thoughts on re gifting. I know I know what they are, but I want everybody else to hear them.

Maggie 1:38:21

You know we’re we’re talking about the this like wave of stuff that gets donated to the thrift store or like thrown away or discarded or put at yard sales like of the gifts that people receive that they don’t really want or use. Right? This is a way to redistribute those things. So in that way, like that’s a selling point of re gifting. The other thing that comes to mind is with re gifting you do want to be careful to not re gift the gift to the original person who got you the gift in the first place. So that’s like just a cautionary tale. Like make sure you keep track of who gifted you what right and when probably, but yeah, I don’t know, I I think there is definitely a stigma around it. It’s like holding, there’s some weird obligation about holding on to something like they’re attaching some meaning to it because because it came from this specific person or there’s some perceived like, sentimental value, when I mean in actuality the sentimentality comes from the memory, you can still have that moment and cherish that gesture. Without like, the stuff itself. Like just sitting there collecting dust or not serving a purpose or bringing value to your life like re gifting I think is like kind of flattering actually. It’s like this. This is useful enough. I see enough value in it that I’m gonna put it back In the world and make sure that someone gets use out of it because I’m not serving it well, by not by not using it and appreciating it myself. So I’m gonna pass it on, right. It’s a waste saving exercise to you. No,

Amanda 1:40:13

absolutely. I mean, I think your goal for all of us is like, no matter where the gift came from, is for the gift to be used and loved, you know, and not sit in a closet until it inevitably ends up to Goodwill. That’s the point of it all. And I think that when you fully understand that and embrace that, it really changes the whole, the whole thought process around gifting. You know, it’s not just about fulfilling this obligation. It’s about putting the right stuff in the right home, you know. And I think yeah, I think re gifting is fine. I mean, listen, if you have a friend who loves some Bath and Bodyworks lotions, I bet you have some hiding in a drawer somewhere that someone gave you five years ago or something

Maggie 1:41:01

some stupid office party. Exchange. That’s right. Yeah,

Amanda 1:41:05

totally. Totally. Exactly. Exactly.