Episode 147: Catalogapalooza (part two), with Jess!

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that still has recurring dreams of visiting the Delia’s outlet in Reading, PA. Seriously. I think it’s a treat my brain gives me when I’ve been having a particularly hard day.

I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 147. Jess is back to discuss more catalogs. We’ll cover the story of Lillian Vernon, before digging into the catalogs of our tween and teen years: Delias, Alloy, Moxiegirl, Girlfriends LA, and more! Jess will tell us the story of the time she visited the Delias offices. And because hindsight is always 20/20, we’ll lay out where these catalogs went wrong, while also kinda framing out the idea of “brand” and “lifestyle” for millennials and millennial-focused brands in the 21st century.

Before we jump into that, let’s listen to some audio essays from small businesses in our community!

Today we are going to meet Natalie of Yellow Clover Vintage and Marianna of Luneta Creations. Let’s give them a listen!

Hi, my name is Natalie and I’m the owner of Yellow Clover Vintage, an Instagram based vintage kids clothing shop. You can find us at yellow Clover vintage on Instagram. It all started because I couldn’t stop buying kids clothes. My husband and I had three sons through adoption. And we were waiting for our fourth girl. I had seen how our sons destroyed most of their clothes like knees toward open pen drawings on the thighs cut sleeves when they wanted a tank top. So I had stopped buying new kids clothes. The adoption wait can be long, and thrifting became my form of nesting while we waited to welcome our daughter. There was and still is something so therapeutic about flipping through racks and wandering aisles. It’s the perfect introverts pastime, which is what I am. I could feel the quality difference and a lot of the clothing. Most of the best stuff was vintage. Besides the quality, the colors, patterns and quirky designs were my thing. I’m just not a neutrals kind of person. I started accumulating a little stash for our daughter, but I could not pass up a good piece of kids vintage clothing. I started selling them on Facebook and found a little community of other moms buying and selling vintage kids clothes. A friend encouraged me to make an Instagram shop. So I did. As soon as I did, I realized that there were parents all over the US and even in other countries who wanted to buy the things I was finding. Soon I expanded to Shopify too. I found so many other parents who like vintage kids clothes for reasons that I do. The quality is higher than the fast fashion clothes being made today. The details are just a lot cuter to like shirts with huge graphics and rompers with little moving parts. One of my favorites is a vintage ant farm t shirt with a clear vinyl piece sewn on the front with little plastic ants inside. It feels really good to know we’re playing our small part and eliminating some of the waste that comes from kids clothes. Kids grow so quickly and they ruin so much. There’s a huge installs a factor too. I had a great childhood and it’s been fun to relive some of it through finding clothes I know my brothers and I wore or a Beauty and the Beast t shirt because I didn’t believe I was the most like Belle when I was younger. As a parent my smile All businesses a part of my self care and sanity to it. It’s been such a good creative outlet for me. I’ve always had an interest in design. So getting to show people these awesome colors and prints with a nice photo is fun for me. Of course I like being able to contribute an income to our family too. It’s nice to think I paid for this trip or I paid for these music lessons for my kids. I love the relationships I’ve formed with other parents. It makes me so happy to see kids wearing clothing I found washed and restored for their birthdays or holidays. The relationships with my customers have grown and our commonality as parents. We talk about school and sleep and bluey and the things that matter most to us. So what started as a hobby to clothe my own kids has turned into clothing kids in multiple states and countries. It brings me a lot of joy and I know it brings other parents joy too. So again, my name is Natalie and my shop is Yellow Clover Vintage. You can find us on Instagram at Yellow Clover Vintage.

Hi Amanda and fellow Clotheshorse listeners. My name is Mariana and I’m obsessed with Clotheshorse. It’s basically the only podcast that listen. I apologize in advance if my if anything that I pronounce is not correct, because I’m Brazilian. So english is not my first language. But I hope you can understand me. I’m calling you regards to Amanda’s prompt about story and feelings about owning a small business. I’m the owner of a reworked vintage jewelry brand, Luneta Creations And I basically source vintage beaded necklaces, take them apart, and then I remake them into new original designs. And I’ve had the brand for a bit over two years. It started as a side hustle during lockdown. And what prompted it was actually that a friend of mine sent me a picture of a bottle of wine that had my nickname on it in cursive and the phone to reminded me of the business cards. I had my dad print out for me when I was eight. And on my first jewelry business. This would have been in the year 2000. So it was mostly seed bead necklaces and elastic bracelets that I would force my classmates to buy from you during recess. Well, maybe not first, but I would ask them very nicely. And I don’t know when the when the wine. When the wine label reminded me of that I immediately started thinking about starting a jewelry brand again. And I was so excited I couldn’t even sleep, thinking about what I would make and my branding. And as I love vintage and then I knew I know we will it’s the best for the environment, I decided to go through this route of sourcing vintage necklaces and take them taking them apart for materials. And sometimes I’m lucky to find vintage deadstock beads as well. When I started doing it, I had been working at Amazon for about six years, I was hired as an intern there back in 2014. While I was doing uni in Brazil, I was majoring in economics. Even though none of the jobs I’ve had at Amazon had anything to do. They transferred me to their UK office back in 2017. So I’ve actually been living in London since then. I don’t want to go too deep into it. But even though I feel lucky that I get to keep my my day job at Amazon during COVID. During my whole time there which was almost eight years, I never felt like I could be myself. So when I started Looney to those in 2020 I really felt like it was the first time that I could just be myself and not have to pretend like to be like a corporate persona. It was so freeing. Then in July 2021 actually changed us at Amazon because I was hoping that maybe you will make things better. But the team I moved to was really crazy in terms of work life balance. And then they made a eventually I burnt out and decided to quit December 8 to quit Amazon in December last year. And I wish I could say that I quit my job because when NATO was so successful that I just could, but I’m actually just lucky that I have enough money saved, at least for for now and being able to make do when my sales earned enough to pay to make my rent and bills. And even though I make less money than it did when I was incorporated. I’m really passionate about what I’m doing with Juanita. And to be honest, if one of having to go back to the corporate world gives me a huge amount of anxiety. So I’m doing my best to make when it’s a workout, including taking some lessons from her Small Business Big Picture course. In terms of lessons learned, the first thing that I did not think about before I started Luneta is that help is how lonely it is to have your own business. When you do everything yourself. I didn’t, I never thought I would miss speaking to people, because I don’t know having meetings was like the worst part of my day, but I actually do. So I think it’s really important to find a community that you can talk about your business, and, you know, brainstorm, etc. I also learned that you sometimes you just have to push through the embarrassment to start your own business. When I started Luneta I kept thinking like, why would anyone buy anything from me? I majored in economics, I’ve never had a great job, who am I to try and sell things. But we’ve time I’ve been trying to feel more entitled to making a living based on my values, because this is just what I’m trying to do. I’m not trying to become a millionaire, or, you know, growling, they’re dying, definitely. I just want to be able to pay my bills, and maybe go traveling sometimes. The third thing that I’m still trying to get my head around is how to make a successful sustainable business more scalable. Because I use vintage beads, they can only make one or two of my designs most of the time. So not only are the beads, vintage beads more expensive, compared to the contemporary beats, but also the process of finding them and then cleaning them and then taking them apart is a little more time consuming. So I am still trying to figure it out what to say for me, I’m looking forward to looking into listening to all your old episodes at the moment and capitalism month in 2021, which has been super interesting. I’m Mariana from lunetacreations.com or at Lunetacreations on Instagram. That’s l u and eta creations. Have a lovely rest of day.

Thank you to both Natalie and Marianna for taking the time to share their stories with us. I loved listening to them! And now I want the adult version of the ant farm shirt Natalie was describing! I will be sharing Natalie and Marianna’s websites and IG profiles in the show notes, so please go give them a follow!

Marianna touched on something that I want to talk about here, and that was the challenge of getting customers to be okay with paying a fair price for the items she offers. She said “why would anyone buy anything from me?”

This is something we have been talking about a lot in this round of the small business classes I teach with Courtney of Sonic Wave Vintage (Small Biz, Big Pic). Everyone in this round and TBH, probably every small business owner ever, struggles with paying themselves a living wage, and charging the right prices to make that happen. And yes, I will agree that a lot of customers–or at least people having a bad day on instagram–will be price resistant at times, not because they are horrible, selfish people but because they don’t understand why things *should* cost more if the people making, selling, shipping, and delivering those items are going to be paid a living wage. As we have talked about many, many times here on Clotheshorse: fast fashion (and really the fast fashion-ization of EVERYTHING) has really distorted our sense of value and price. You and I both know that a tank top should cost more than $1.90, but we know that because we have the knowledge, right? The average customer might not have that. And as much as it feels like a burden–an unfair burden for sure–it’s kind of on us as small business owners to share that knowledge. I call it (and yes, this is gross) “showing how the sausage is made.” Show why your beads are special and more expensive. Explain the time required to make something you sell. Most people don’t even understand how much time is involved in making a necklace or a shirt or pouring candles or all of the other things you do. If you’re a secondhand seller, emphasize the amount of time you’re saving someone by bringing these clean, mended items right to their door.

But let’s go back to what Marianna said in her audio essay “why would anyone buy anything from me?” I can list many reasons why someone would buy something from Marianna. I was looking at her jewelry today and it is BEAUTIFUL. I want every single piece. Lots of stunning pastel beads and I love knowing that they are vintage. Like some of the best jewelry I have seen in a long time. It is definitely worth paying a higher price, you know? Marianna is definitely talented. I mean, she’s been making jewelry since she was a kid. That’s real experience!

What this really is, that question “why would anyone buy anything from me,” is imposter syndrome. Wikipedia defines it as “a psychological occurrence in which an individual doubts their skills, talents, or accomplishments and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a fraud.” Imposter syndrome is often accompanied by anxiety and depression. And it manifests itself in a lot of behaviors that you might catch yourself doing every day:

Is making a single mistake the most terrifying thing you can imagine? Specifically making it publicly? Do you kinda get “stuck” in ensuring everything is “perfect” before making a move?

Are you afraid that people won’t like your instagram posts or be super critical at the very least? Is this preventing you from posting on your business account? That’s imposter syndrome right there. I’ll be the first to admit that I have a lot of anxiety every single time I post something on the Clotheshorse instagram. The human brain was not built for the steady stream of feedback from strangers that social media gives us. I don’t love it. But I have experienced some of the worst things social media can bring you: death threats from vegans who found my phone number on the internet (because I posted about fake leather being plastic). People criticizing my body and appearance. Being accused of being a clueless privileged white woman because of my stance on secondhand shopping. Etc, etc. I have definitely had to take breaks, turn off comments and DMs, etc. But you know what? That doesn’t mean that no one wants to see my content on instagram. And I would say the same for you if the anxiety that you aren’t good enough is holding you back.

Does the thought of asking for someone for help or advice freak you out? Because you are afraid you will be unmasking yourself as an incompetent imposter? Know that everyone needs help and advice. Who is the person you admire most in the world? Like who is your role model? I can assure you that they have asked many people for help over the years.

Are you working ridiculous hours, trying to work harder than everyone else, really doubling down on hustle culture because you want to “prove” that you deserve success? Nope, that’s not good either. You’re just going to burn yourself out

Are you afraid of applying for markets or offering wholesale because you assume no one will want your stuff? I bet you are totally wrong. Have you asked others their opinion? I don’t think you should look to the opinions of others to feel better about your work, but it can be a start just to put it in perspective.

I catch myself sorta self-sabotaging myself all the time with imposter syndrome. I have my own approach that helps me a lot (and take this with a grain of salt because I am not a therapist but I am someone who has dealt with imposter syndrome my whole life): I am betting you have a vision of this “perfect” version of the thing you are doing. Like this version that is (in your mind) millions of miles beyond what you are doing. It’s the version of your work that will always garner a fair price, will be accepted in every market (with a red carpet rolled out for the seller), it gets 1 million likes on social media. You have that vision in your head. Theoretically it’s something you saw before and it’s stuck with you…but is there a chance that your brain is remembering it as a more fantastical version?

I will ask myself “what is the best version of what I am doing that someone else is doing?” So what’s the best podcast I can think of? Who is making the best instagram educational content? For Marianna it would mean finding the best jewelry made of vintage beads. Now go give it a look or listen. Like really study it. Why is it “so much better” than what you are doing? Or is it so much better at all?

I think we tend to build up the “perfect” versions into something larger than life, something completely unachievable. And all it does is make our work seem worse, less worthy of customers or listeners or appreciators.

I also think many of us have been conditioned to feel shame in pride. That it’s a bad look to be happy with our work. To be proud of what we have done, what we are currently doing, and what we will do next. And unfortunately, discouraging people from being happy with their accomplishments just swings the pendulum into imposter syndrome.

I see imposter syndrome playing itself out in so many bad ways, as we undersell ourselves in many different ways.

Not asking for raises and paid time off at work…because we think we are unworthy.

Not charging fair prices for the things we sell…because we think we are unworthy.

Staying stuck in toxic relationships (romantic and platonic)…because we think we are unworthy.

Depriving ourselves of rest and reward…because we think we are unworthy.

Neglecting our health…because we think we are unworthy.

There is no easy cure for imposter syndrome, and from my experience, it creeps back into my life any time I’m in a new situation, whether that’s a new job, a new project, a new place, a party where I don’t know anyone…you name it. If I’m uncomfortable, my imposter syndrome comes back in full force. Obviously therapy is the ideal way to work through it, but therapy (at least here in the United States) is a massive luxury that many of us don’t get to have. I think talking about your own imposter syndrome with close friends is helpful. Even asking them to call you out when you’re saying or doing something that is clearly the result of imposter syndrome. That can be super helpful. There are also many, many articles, books, videos, etc about the topic. I also recommend distancing yourself from people who stoke your imposter syndrome by being overly critical of you, who tell you to “settle” for less because you are not worthy of better, who neg you first, before offering a tepid compliment. I have noticed how certain people time and time again exacerbated my sense of imposterism, and distancing myself has helped me so much.

Alright, well now that we’ve finished this installment of the Clotheshorse Therapy Corner, let’s jump into my conversation with Jess!

Thank you again to Jess for spending many hours talking about catalogs with me! We are already working on another episode together–which I am planning to be the last episode of 2022–about toy trends and how they connect to advertising, cartoons, and their uncomfortable relationship with the psyches of children!

In the meantime, you can find her on instagram as @jesinspace (that’s with one S) and also on TikTok (where she shares some awesome videos) as jesinspace (yes, still one S).

I thought I would end this episode with the story of one more catalog, and this part of the episode is dedicated to Ms. Susan Massey: It is the story of Swiss Colony, “America’s number-one food gifts catalog” (that’s according to the Swiss Colony website). I have so many memories of this catalog arriving at our house around October every year, filled with cheese baskets, cookies, festive tortes, tins of sugar-free candy, even bigger tins of popcorn, petit fours decorated with little snow men…Swiss Colony had all of the food you were supposed to gift to your loved ones. I love a food gift–and who is ever really angry about some festive truffles? My mom and grandma ordered religiously from Swiss Colony, even sending some my way when I became an adult. To me as a child, Swiss Colony was the most sophisticated catalog, for the true gourmands, for people who probably owned yachts and spent the holidays skiing in the Alps..it was for people who had been to Europe! Because wasn’t Swiss Colony…Swiss? And therefore, european? And therefore…fancy?!

Well, it turns out that Swiss Colony began in 1926 in neither Geneva nor Zurich nor even a bucolic Alpen village…but instead, in Monroe, Wisconsin in the USA. Apparently Monroe had both a strong concentration of Swiss immigrants and a history of making a lot of cheese. Ray Kubly was a senior at the University of Wisconsin that year. And one of his school projects was considering the pros and cons of creating a business selling Wisconsin cheese via mail order. Now, it was no coincidence that Ray had cheese on his mind because (according to the Swiss Colony website), Ray’s hometown was “the unofficial cheese capital of the biggest cheese-producing state in the nation.” Cheese was pretty much in his blood (which is a gross mental picture, for sure).

Well, after he graduated, Ray just couldn’t stop thinking about this cheese mail order business. So he decided to go for it. And per Swiss Colony legend:

“He mailed out handbills, which he himself designed and stamped, that advertised cuts of Wisconsin-made bulk cheeses for the upcoming holidays. As orders came in, he cut the huge wheels of cheese into pieces by hand, then wrapped and shipped them. In his first year of business, he sold all 50 packages of cheese that he had prepared.”

By 1941 (15 years later), Swiss Colony had 100 seasonal employees (because the focus was on holiday food gifting). And customers included Eleanor Roosevelt, Jimmy Stewart, Ginger Rogers, Ronald Reagan, and many other celebrities who loved giving cheese as a gift. Just a few years later, the business had grown so much, that the railroad had to send an extra boxcar to Monroe every week in December just to transport all of those holiday cheese orders! Over time, Swiss Colony added sausage, bakery products, and candies to its product offering. These included fruit cake, torte, and petit fours. According to their website, “The Swiss Colony has the largest hand-decorating bakery in America.”

But here’s the thing: from 1926 to 1961, as Swiss Colony grew and grew, Ray Kubly was just doing it as a side hustle! In fact, this entire time, he held on to his day job at Borden (a dairy company) where he worked his way up to Vice President!

Like a lot of catalogs, Swiss Colony tried to make the move to retail stores in the 60s and 70s, opening more than 225 locations. But in the 1980s, the company decided to move away from that plan, closing these stores due to an economic downturn and high rents in malls.

As of today, Swiss Colony is still family owned, but now it is called “Colony Brands, Inc.” It employs more than 4,500 people, with about half of them being seasonal employees strictly for the rush of holiday food gifts.

In 2008, Colony Brands purchased the assets of a bankrupt catalog retailer called “Direct Marketing Services,” acquiring more catalog brands:

Montgomery Ward

Charles Keath (a home decor brand that seems to be defunct)

Home Visions (also seems to be RIP)

Colony Brands also acquired many other catalogs, including Wisconsin Cheesman, Midnight Velvet (sells clothing and home goods), Ginny’s (home goods and gifts), Seventh Avenue (another clothing and home decor/gift catalog). All of the catalogs–including Swiss Colony–are known for offering financing on all of their orders. Sort of like layaway, but with interest. And I know for certain that this is why my family liked to shop from them. Once you buy from one of these catalogs, you start receiving them all!

But here’s the twist you didn’t see coming: Colony Brands also maintains a controlling interest in SC (the SC is for “Swiss Colony”) Aviation, Inc, a provider of charter aircraft! It all began back in 1946, when the company bought a two-passenger, single engine Cessna 140. This was used to transport executives and when necessary, products. Soon they added a five seat Cessna to the mix. And over the years, as they added and upgraded planes, they realized that this fleet was another source of revenue for the company, as other companies were willing to pay for use of these planes to transport their own executives and products. SC Aviation offers charter flights all over the midwest via private jet!

All right…well that’s the end of catalog-apalooza for now, but perhaps we will have to revisit this more next year!

I have to go make dinner now (lasagna with zucchini instead of noodles), so I’m going to call this the end and say…thanks for listening to another episode of Clotheshorse!