Episode 170: Unpacking Our Shopping Habits with Isabel Varela

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that didn’t have a credit card until it was well into its thirties.

I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 170! Today’s guest is many-hyphenate Isabel Varela. Seriously, she does so many things: she’s a keynote speaker, life coach, master tailor, and sustainability activist! At the age of 26, she found herself with more than $100,000 in credit card debt…all from clothes, cosmetics, and accessories. Today she’ll tell us how she got there, how she got out of it, and how she has helped others work through their addiction to shopping.

Before we jump into that, I want to talk to you a little bit about another way brands and retailers spend a lot of money to market to you in a much sneakier way…and that’s Google adwords.

In last week’s episode I talked about how retailers are paying money to appear at the top of searches like “how to dress like Barbie as an adult” or “Barbie clothes for adults” or just “Barbie”or “pink.” or anything related to the Summer of Barbie. Even brands that don’t actually have partnerships with Mattel or the Barbie film! For example Shein is not in the midst of any sort of licensed collaboration with Mattel right now, but when you search “Barbie clothes for women,” Shein is in the top sponsored search results on Google shopping. Same goes for Anthropologie, Uniqlo, and Doll’s Kill…all showing pink clothing in the search results. How does that happen if the clothes don’t even have Barbie on them? That’s a really great question and we’re going to get into that right now.

So let’s start with one lesson many retailers many e-commerce specialists have learned in the past couple of decades of shopping online: People get sort of “scroll fatigue” pretty fast. They’ll definitely look at the first page of search results. They might look at the second page of search results.. but after that, they probably will stop looking especially, if they’re shopping. That’s why appearing at the top of those search results is so important. Now you probably assume like I did for a long time that when you type a question into Google even if it’s “Barbie clothes for adults,” you assume that you are seeing results in order of relevance, right? Or perhaps even how true or accurate or correct that information you will find by clicking that link is. That would be very nice, right? Unfortunately that is not how Google search works especially when we get into the realm of shopping.

Okay, so you’re a retailer and you have a bunch of pink clothes. None of them have Barbie on them, but you want customers to know that you have a lot of clothes that would be great for them to buy to go see Barbie.

Now if you didn’t listen to the last episode of Clothehorse, you should go listen to the intro right now, where I tell you that you don’t need to buy new clothes to go see the Barbie movie. We’ll and wait while you do that because I just want to make sure you know that before we continue.

So you’re a retailer and you’re selling pink clothes. You want people to see them and you also know that it’s kind of an “early bird gets the worm” situation when people are searching online for shopping purposes. What you are going to do is bid on those search words, whether it’s “Barbie clothes for adults, “Barbie clothes women,” “pink clothes,” “pink clothes women,” you will bid against other retailers to come up at the top of those search results. And here’s how it works:

Advertisers (aka retailers) bid on keywords/search terms.

Someone searches on Google.

If any ads are targeting relevant keywords to that search, an auction is triggered.

Google enters all relevant ads into the auction, only one per account.

It then uses Quality Score and Ad Rank formulas to choose the winners. The winners come up at the top, everyone falls behind that based on their bid.

Advertisers only pay when their ad gets clicked.

And to be clear, the retailers that bid the highest on those words, will be featured first. Those who bid the least, or not at all, will not appear. And yes, the retailer pays every time someone clicks on their “ad” in the search results, so it’s important to be very strategic, so they are just throwing away money on search terms that don’t convert browsers into customers.

Here’s where this starts to become very, I don’t know…unfair:

This is so expensive. And many small businesses or even smaller brands cannot play this game at all. And I want you to put a pin in that because I’m going to come back to it.

This also means that customers only see retailers/brands that have a big budget for this kind of thing…meaning, lots of fast fashion. I have definitely worked for brands who couldn’t even afford to bid on words that were really important to their business model, like “dress” or “suit.” Those words are just so expensive.

And worse, because a lot of customers don’t know this is happening, they assume that the results they are seeing based on reputation or quality or just even a good representation of what’s out there in the world…so the ultra fast fashion brands like Shein, Temu, Cider, even AliExpress are sort of legitimized, as customers assume that being on the top page of search results means they are the best places to shop.

So last week I made a Reel about how these google adwords can become even more insidious and it involves selling knockoffs, copies, and stolen designs, all taken from smaller brands and designers. You can go watch that Reel, but it’s really hard (like SO HARD) to cram a lot of info into 90 seconds, so I am going to elaborate a lot more here.

So if you’ve been listening long enough, you know I’m a big fan of the Selkie aesthetic. It’s a small brand of floofy, dreamy, pastel dresses. And they are very distinctive and unique in the world of apparel. The first time I saw them, back in 2019 when I was working for that rental brand, I knew we had to bring them in, that our customers would go wild for them. Everyone was skeptical..and guess what? Now it’s a major brand for the platform and people sign up just to rent Selkie dresses.

So one of Selkie’s iconic designs is the Puff Dress. Seriously, go to selkiecollection.com and you will see that the Puff Dress has its own CLP (category landing page). It’s an important part of the brand. And they all retail for around $250 at full price. That sounds steep, but it’s all small batch, all sizes are the same price (and most styles go up to 6x), there’s a lot of fabric in each item, a lot of what we call “make” in the industry (meaning sewing and details), and a lot of exclusive prints and colors. Worth $250, especially since none of us needs a whole closet of these. One or two will serve us for a lot of occasions.

So here’s what happens when I switch my Chrome browser into incognito mode (because google already knows way too much about what I want to see, and I want it to show me the results that a regular shopper would see, not a rabble rouser like me). And guess what I see at the top of those search results? The first few results are legit Selkie dresses sold by various retailers…but #6 is a Shein dress that is clearly a Selkie knockoff…for $19.99. #7 is another knockoff from Francesca’s for a steep $53.20. #9 is a copy by Cider for $30.60, and #10 is a copy available on Amazon for $18.99. Why? Because these brands outbid other retailers to appear at the top of the search results, even retailers who were selling actual Selkie dresses. They knowingly bid on “Selkie puff dress,” and knowingly stole the design, too.

If you’re a diehard Selkie fan you know these are copies. But if you’re a diehard Selkie fan, you probably aren’t searching google because you know exactly where to get a dress.

However, if you’re a customer who is intrigued by the idea of these dresses, you like the aesthetic…you’re going to be enticed by these less expensive copies, especially if you haven’t seen how disappointing all of these are in real life. Because you can’t sell a dress with all of that make and fabric for $20 or even $50 if you’re not cutting a lot of corners (and using a lot less fabric).

As a new customer, someone curious about this aesthetic, you’ll find yourself on Cider or Shein or even Amazon…and even if you don’t buy the dress whose search results brought you to the website, you will probably buy other things while you’re on the site. And so the fast fashion brand that literally stole the idea from Selkie benefits from also bidding on the search term “selkie puff dress.” And as an added benefit (for Shein and Cider, not Selkie), a new customer might decide “oh, those puff dresses aren’t that special anyway” and never buy anything from Selkie. They might even think that Selkie didn’t come up with the idea first!

I tried searching other items, including Selkie.

For another iconic Selkie style, the Ritz dress, I found copies from Asos and Amazon in the top 10 results.

Remember the iconic Lirika Matoshi strawberry dress from a few years ago? Searching that brought up copies from every corner of the internet, each one sadder than the previous.

Searching “Nooworks dress” brought up something super weird from NY & Co.

It’s all super gross because we know that fast fashion brands are copying small brands and designers every day…but then to bid on those brand names and the names of their iconic styles? Woof…that is so unethical. And to make matters worse, we know that these small brands don’t have the cash to bid top dollar for these words, so they will always be beaten out by these fast fashion brands with a lot of money to spend. And then to think that say, Shein or Cider have all this money to spend on google search while still offering such unreasonably low prices? Well that’s just scary because it underscores how much exploitation and cut corners are involved in making the things they sell. And yes, I think it’s really fucked up that Google kind of looks away on these things, even though they are helping bad brands capitalize off of bad things like stealing designs.

So what can you do as a customer? This is a real “knowledge makes the difference” situation. Now that you know, rethink how you approach search results and shopping. Recognize that just because a brand appears at the top, doesn’t mean that they are the best option in terms of quality and aesthetic. Tell your friends, too! And resist the urge to buy dupes of stolen ideas.

Okay, with all of that…let’s jump into my conversation with Isabel!

Isabel Varela:

Hi, my name is Isabel Varela. I’m a self-love coach, motivational speaker, an activist, a medicine woman. I help women to really transform their relationships with themselves, the clothing that they wear for our planet.

Amanda:

And you reached out to me a while back to talk about retail therapy and how it’s not really therapy. And you said like, oh, I’ve got like a lot of stories about this. And you sure do. So I thought we could talk about how you got to where you are right now.

Isabel Varela:

Oh, okay.

Amanda:

And so I know it starts with a harrowing realization that you had more than $100,000 in credit card debt at 26.

Isabel Varela:

Yes, so let’s go back in time. So I had a phone call from my oldest brother asking me, hey, what’s going on? I just got a phone call from the car insurance company. My response was, oh, don’t worry about it. It’s my business expenses, I got it.

Amanda:

Right.

Isabel Varela:

So got off the phone and that’s when I realized. All of my dreams of being a famous fashion designer moving to New York City were never going to happen because at the time I was in Dallas, Texas. I just started my women’s brand. I was in five stores. I had my own studio in downtown Dallas. I was dressing celebrities. I was a fashion designer to watch across the South. But that all came to a very abrupt ending because I had to face the reality that I need to change my life before it continues to get worse because I hadn’t paid my bills and my car note, my bills, my utilities for three months. And I was going from one boyfriend’s house to the next. I had my stuff in my little, my little car. And from that point on, I pretty much the next day, or maybe two days after that, I had a look at all my credit card statements because I had maxed out seven credit cards. Then I decided I need to get a full-time job because I had my business, I wasn’t working on the side, I was just doing that full-time. And then I got myself into a debt management program and then found myself a therapist. Ha ha

Amanda:

Whoo, no big deal. So like how did you get there? Because I’m sure it didn’t happen overnight.

Isabel Varela:

Oh, it did not. It actually started at a very young age. I loved clothes. I loved art and, you know, I combined the two and wanted to use my creativity and styling. And at 16, I had my first retail job down South in Lake Charles, Louisiana. That’s where I was born. And I got my first paycheck. And it was about probably like, I don’t know, it was like, it was a small check. It was like $800 to me back then. It’s like this is huge. But to that, to me. Was a start of my love and then my addiction to clothing. I spent my entire check on clothes at that store.

Amanda:

Wow.

Isabel Varela:

And then. It’s funny, because I said small, because that’s what I thought back then. Oh, it’s $800. of clothing that’s fine and to me when I look back I’m thinking oh my god 800 dollars like seriously that could have gone to so many things but that’s what I kept choosing is every single time I would make a paycheck get a paycheck I would rationalize it’s like you know well I need these items and it just continued and the thing that started after that what started to happen was really gravitate to wild and avant-garde pieces of clothing so I could get attention. And whether or not it was positive or negative intention, I loved it. And that’s when I thought, if I wear crazy clothes, then I’m going to get attention. I’m going to feel like I’m loved. I’m going to feel enough and worthy. And I mean, there’s some times, you know, it was fun to style, but it got to the point where I always craved it. So it was a continued 16, 17, 18, college, and all the way to 26. So that is 10 years of spending. And

Amanda:

Wow.

Isabel Varela:

yeah, I didn’t stop until that phone call.

Amanda:

It’s interesting because I think everybody who is listening to this conversation, maybe they didn’t get, it didn’t get as extreme for them. But I think for a lot of people, this is like, you’re speaking a truth that we know. I mean, I’ve definitely been there where I felt like I bought a lot of clothes for multiple reasons. You know, it was to feel good, to fit in. Definitely just, I don’t know, it checked an emotional box that I needed, you know? And there were times, I mean, there are still times now where I think like, oh wow, if I hadn’t bought all those clothes over all those years, I’d probably own like a house now, you know? And if like, multiple houses perhaps. I don’t even wanna let myself think about that. But I think so many of us have been in that place where we’re kind of outspending ourselves on clothes and other things. Did you find that you were over consuming other things? beauty products, shoes, that kind of stuff.

Isabel Varela:

Yes, I actually, and I don’t have a picture because that video camera is lost somewhere. I had 300 pairs of shoes. And that plus clothing, and then I had a lot of accessories. I was obsessed with scarves. So I had about, you know, one of those Chester drawers that has four drawers, all of it full of scarves. I had belts, galore. and jewelry and actually it took me until last year to finally declutter my jewelry because that was the one thing that had not decluttered since all the times that I had purchased jewelry and I saw that and realized oh my god I gotta let this go like I’m not wearing these pieces but and oh let’s not forget there is also makeup and makeup Like, let me

test this out. Let me test this cleanser out. So it got to the point where it was a lot, but the most amount of money was spent on the clothes and the shoes.

Amanda:

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. There are so many subreddits and Facebook groups for people who ultimately are kind of over-shopping together and sort of, I don’t know, I hate to say this, but kind of almost encouraging or normalizing this kind of over-consumption behavior. For example, There is a subreddit for Sephora, there’s a subreddit for Ulta, there’s a subreddit for Glossier, there’s just a subreddit for buying lots of makeup, basically, and skincare. And I’m always amazed by how much people are buying and kind of like egging one another on, like sort of posting photos of their hauls and encouraging other people to buy hauls worth of stuff, meaning like lots of stuff at once. And I do think… For those of us who are a little bit older, I’m like really relieved that in my 20s and teens that like social media didn’t exist in the same way where people would post photos and videos of all the stuff they bought at one time because I think that would have encouraged me to buy even more stuff that I didn’t need. I don’t know about you. I think that it’s almost harder to not buy too much stuff now.

Isabel Varela:

I definitely agree with that because we have so much, so much access to the stores online

and social media and then influencers and ads every single place you click online and then walking outside. And definitely whenever I was growing up too, I didn’t have access to all these things. It wasn’t, it wasn’t as… available at my fingertips like it is now. I literally

had to get in a car, drive to the store. So I definitely agree with that. It’s just so accessible that it’s like why aren’t you shopping? Like well, I really shouldn’t be.

Amanda:

yeah. And you know, it’s interesting to think about how easy it is to over shop right now. Like, you don’t even have to leave your house. But I bet when you were buying all those clothes and scarves and jewelry, you had to actually, like, go places to do it. And like, it becomes like a full-time job almost. But here, like with the rise of online shopping, it’s like you could wake up in the middle of the night in your pajamas and place a bunch of orders and go back to bed. Like you never have to, I don’t know, it’s too convenient, I guess is what I’m saying.

Isabel Varela:

It is, and I don’t know if you ever shopped at Delia’s, but I remember getting magazines. So then I

Amanda:

Oh.

Isabel Varela:

would circle all the things I wanted. And then I would then take about, I mean, spend about one hour planning. Okay, I’m gonna go to this store, then this store. And then I’m gonna drive to Lafayette, which is about like an hour. away from where I was living to go shopping there. And then the next day, so it was like always planning for my next shopping trip and it got to the point where once I moved to a bigger city and because I lived in Houston, Texas and I lived in Dallas, Texas, it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday shopping.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Isabel Varela:

And

Amanda:

Yeah, I bet.

Isabel Varela:

that was that was all I would do and then I remember I was sharing this with you even back then with AOL that’s like you know barely exists doesn’t even exist anymore but I know

Amanda:

RIP.

Isabel Varela:

my you know my hobbies always included shopping as the first thing I would mention with whoever I was chatting online with, like, oh my god, what do you do? Oh my god, I’m a shopper! Me too! So it was just, that was my hobby. And then all my friends that I had at that time, that’s all we would do, shopping and then plan for the next trip to go.

Amanda:

Yeah, yeah. No, it’s interesting that you bring up the hobby, because a lot of times if you take any sort of like survey, like consumer survey, or fill out your online dating profile or what have you, and it asks you what you like to do, shopping is like often listed as a hobby or an interest, which is pretty wild when you like, you take a step back. You’re like, my hobby is spending money, you know?

Isabel Varela:

Exactly!

Amanda:

And looking for things to spend money on. But also like you and I were talking about, Shopping is a social activity, right? It’s like, you know, how many times have I spent the afternoon shopping with my friends, you know, we get lunch and we kind of like in a weird way, encourage one another to buy things just by shopping together. Or when I was a kid, like the only way the adults in my family could spend any time together and not get in a fight was by going shopping.

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god, that was the same thing here as well with

Amanda:

Yes,

Isabel Varela:

the family too and

Amanda:

totally.

Isabel Varela:

the friends.

Amanda:

And so when we would go to the mall as kids, it felt like the best time ever because everyone was getting along and it was really exciting and you didn’t know what to happen, what would happen. And so I have always, when I was a kid, I would always dream of living at the mall because it just seemed like it was the most perfect place in the world.

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god, you just reminded me. Do you remember that the mall madness game?

Amanda:

Yes.

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god,

Amanda:

Speaking

Isabel Varela:

that was fun.

Amanda:

of, oh my gosh, getting kids to go shopping at an early age, like that’s the thing. It’s like we sort of didn’t stand a chance. This is for those of you who are too young to know what this is. Well, you’re lucky because this game is basically like you go shopping with a credit card. And there’s like the whole the whole exciting part of it is there’s like a credit card machine in the center.

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

It’s so silly, but I mean, like Barbie was always going shopping and getting new clothes and like every movie had like a montage in it where people were shopping and having a good time or like getting a makeover or trying on outfits. And so shopping becomes like really glamorous when you’re a kid. It’s weird to think like now people don’t go to the mall in the same way as they did in like the 80s and 90s. So it’s not like the same sort of appeal. And I think that’s why people post so many like hall videos and stuff like that, because that’s how they get that like social aspect of shopping now that they can’t do it in real life. Because it’s not like you would sit on the couch with all your friends and you’d each be individually on your phone shopping together. That would be so weird. I mean, I’m sure it happens, but it’s not quite as glamorous, right?

Isabel Varela:

It’s a true, it isn’t as glamorous. And I was considered a mall rat when I was in my teens.

Amanda:

Ah, me too, me too. I go to the mall every Friday with my friends.

Isabel Varela:

Yes, and we would get back then I would get well, I still love french fries. That’s still my I still

Amanda:

Hahaha!

Isabel Varela:

that’s still Uh, I still love french fries, but get my little chicken wings french fries go shopping and then back then It was Hot Topic. It was Gadzooks, Wet Weal Oh my goodness

Amanda:

Yeah, I mean, it is interesting. If you go to a mall now, there are still so many stores in malls that cater to teenagers specifically. And I do think it’s because those are probably the people who spend the most amount of time in malls still, because there aren’t that many places to hang out as a teen anymore. I was reading an article this morning about how less and less teenagers are interested in getting their driver’s license, their driver’s licenses, because there just aren’t that many places to drive. You know? And I was like, oh yeah, I guess you’re probably right. Like, you’re pretty much, you could just have your parents drive you to the mall, you know? But I do think that like, we’re kind of socialized really young to shop as like a social outlet, as a way to feel good. And so it’s understandable why a lot of us would find ourselves like, oh my God, I have bought all this stuff, has the tags on it. I have all this debt.

So, okay, so you have more than $100,000 in credit card debt, which almost makes me get palpitations when I think about it. Like, I have anxiety just thinking about it, and you’re only 26 years old. So what is the first step there? Like, you have all this stuff that you aren’t wearing or using. Did you sell it?

Isabel Varela:

So I did a few things. After look, I know it will be reminding me of that time. I also get anxiety because I just, I can remember that feeling of like, what in the F am I going to do? I know.

Amanda:

I mean, I had so many friends around that age who ended up declaring bankruptcy, and it was all store credit cards, just credit cards that were handed out at college, you know, all maxed out, unpayable, because they’re like working at Starbucks with me or something. It’s not uncommon for people to hit their mid to late 20s and be in a really bad financial situation.

Isabel Varela:

And just knowing that it’s just, it’s so disheartening because we should be taught how to take care of our finances, But what I did or what helped me was calling that debt management program. And at that time… I literally chose the management program, the debt management program, by intuition because I googled it. It’s like, how do I get out of $100,000?

How do I pay off all these cards? Because I also had a lot of store credit cards, Gap, Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, Express, and then two visas. Oh my goodness. But… They, so once I chose the debt management program and they were called CCCF, was a nonprofit based in California, after speaking to them, they ended up setting me up with a financial, you could say like counselor, advisor that was helping me. They consolidated all of my, most of my credit cards and they had to talk to the credit card companies. So just them expressing, and explaining to me how they’re going to help me really calm my anxiety down for a split second. But after that, then I had to go to the next step. Oh my God, I have to get a full-time job. I have to go back to work. So my ego was hit hard because everyone knew me as this, it’s Bobrilla, as this fashion designer. Wait, where’s her brand? Now is it both back working at Nordstrom? What happened? And then the third thing… um, was what am I going to do with all these clothes? So what I started doing was selling them to friends. It’s like, does anyone want any clothes? I’m going to start selling things and then two and a half years after that, I ended up having an estate sale because I was moving to New York City and that’s when people started coming and just grabbing all kinds of things and I started to recoup some money, not that much. And then at that point, I really didn’t know that much about sustainability so there were some pieces that I just donated and then there were consignment shops because I also had gone from buying at like Goodwill, way to buying designer, which was towards the end. of you know before my big wake-up call I started buying designer which was insane because I had so much debt and I remember going to these luxury stores like oh look you guys offer layaway of course we do okay well then let me get all these five pieces so I so it was like one thing after another and then getting into therapy it actually took me almost three years to finally admit that I had a problem and you know, my therapist would, you know, you know, would prompt me, like, hey Isabel, we should look at your fashion addiction, your shopaholism. And I would say, let’s talk about finances. But then it wasn’t until I was ready enough to finally realize, oh my god, I have a problem because I would have to In one year, I moved six times because at one, I couldn’t find a roommate. These places were expensive and it was I wasn’t making enough money. And what really helped me to see how big my problem was, it’s like every time I would move, I had so much stuff. and I would have to make so many trips back and forth to these locations and apartments and then I saw so many tags. So I was hit with reality again after going through all of these things, going through the debt management program, starting a full-time job, looking at my credit cards and going to therapy. Now I’m hit again with reality of… unpacking, packing, and then that’s when I just, okay, what else can I do? I’m selling my clothes, I’m doing commission.

So yeah, it was that the decluttering also helped me to start seeing, which then helped me to finally, truthfully say, oh my God, I have a problem. I’m ready to talk about this in therapy now.

Amanda:

I mean, that’s amazing. I was thinking, like, in the years before you realized that, but while you were also trying to conquer this debt, I was thinking, like, oh, wow, she must have been really feeling this sense of, like, I don’t know, like, withdrawal, like, restlessness, because you hadn’t begun to address the psychological issues. And yet, you were, like, being forced to tackle the financial issues. And so you must have been like, oh, I wish I could just, like, buy something. I wish I could buy something to make myself feel better. You know?

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god, yes. And there is actually, it was one, two, three. So 2013, when I finally moved to New York City, I still had debt, I paid some of it off. But I was still purchasing clothing, but not at the rate that I was before, but I was still purchasing.

And then every time I would purchase, I knew that that’s that amount of money less that I could send to pay off my credit card. And then when I got to New York, now I’m hit with like, this rent is high. I have to get three jobs, four jobs here. Cause I had two full-time jobs.

I know how do you do that? I don’t know, but I managed to do that.

And then I had a side hustle. And then that’s when I… I had to stop shopping because every time I would go outside, let me go walk down SoHo. I mean there’s so many cool stores and this was the place that I started to put more boundaries on myself and this is very hard. This is not like, oh it was so easy. Heck no. I actually had to One, if I wanted to go to SoHo or any other place because I was still buying and spending.

I literally said, one, I have to bring my food because I can’t be eating out. And then number two, I can only bring my subway card. And number three, I can only have my driver’s license. I cannot spend any money outside. If I wanna go outside and do window shopping, I won’t have. any cash or credit card or anything. So I would make those trips outside as quickly as possible because it was uncomfortable because I would see something in the window. It’s like I’m tempting myself. It’s like I’m trying to sabotage myself.

oh my God. And then… I did that for a month. I didn’t get any, it didn’t end close. But then I rationalized and said, you know what, I’m doing good. It’s been a month. So I didn’t follow my own boundaries. And I went to American, I’ll remember this. I went to American, American Apparel.

and I already had like seven black leggings and I just went. inside, yes, I went inside and I had my credit card with me. It’s like I can handle this. I won’t buy anything and then I look at the leggings like well I, well my leggings, well I don’t have this type of black legging. I tried them on and I was like well I did the same rationalization and I felt like that high that I would always get when I enter the stores and then you know I paid it. And as soon as I walked off that door of American Apparel in Soho, all this guilt and shame and I was so upset. And I literally turned around, went back inside and I said, hey, I need to return this. I was like, oh, what happened? It was a mistake. I don’t know. Could I please return these? Yes, we’ll make this exception because I think it was one of those final sale things or something. And then that’s when I said, no, this is it. I can’t do this anymore. And that’s when I started my no shopping at all because it was really hard. I had to change my behavior. So that’s when I stopped shopping for a year and eight months. And the first thing that I purchased at the year and eight month mark were underwear. Cause I mean, my things were getting a little holy. So it was time for some new undies, but. It was very difficult and I had to have five to six different behaviors for me to overcome the shopping itch. And I always

had a list on my phone. It’s like, okay, if I want to go shopping, I can choose from, let me go outside, let me go hiking, let me go paint, let me sew. something, do an alteration, reading. I think I just named some more behaviors. But those are all the things that I had on my phone that I always had to go look at because I’d always get that shopping itch or someone would invite me, hey, Isabel, we’re gonna go to Soho, we’re gonna check out some stores. No, I can’t, I can’t. It’s like, you never can anymore, Isabel, because I have so much debt to pay. And then

that’s when I had to, those friends then just became non-friends. I couldn’t hang out with them anymore.

Amanda:

I mean, that makes me so sad to just think about losing friends because the only thing they can do for fun is go shopping. But I’ve also had friends like that in my life, whether it was like shopping was the thing, or it was like drinking,

Isabel Varela:

Yes!

Amanda:

you know? That’s the thing. Like, I don’t really wanna go out and be drunk all night. So I stopped hanging out with those people, and I would put out ideas like, hey, what if we cooked dinner instead, or went to the park, and they weren’t interested? And it was like, you know what? Maybe these aren’t the right friends for me, because I want to do other things with my time. So I totally understand that. That is hard, though. I mean, it’s interesting. As you talk about this, I just feel like how isolating dealing with a shopping addiction, just like any other addiction, can be. Because I always have a lot of empathy. Well, I have empathy for people who struggle with any addiction. But I’ll think, for example, people who are a recovering alcoholic, right? Drinking is so socialized and so normalized that

Isabel Varela:

Yep.

Amanda:

people will drink at the office and it’s always at dinner parties and events and you can go to a movie theater and there’s drinks and drinking is just everywhere. It must be so hard to just not do it when it’s around you in your face. I feel like shopping is even bigger because for one, sometimes you have to shop because all your underwear has holes in them.

And so you’re like, have to do the thing that you’re addicted to, but do it in a moderate way. And on top of that, like we talked about, shopping is such a social activity, and it’s sort of like, oh, well, you know women, they love shopping, that kind of cliche. And there are books and movies that sort of like, I don’t know, glorify overconsumption, you know?

Isabel Varela:

Yes,

Amanda:

Right?

Isabel Varela:

yes.

Amanda:

And that it’s not unhealthy. to have an addiction to shopping basically. It’s almost like a jokey thing. But the reality is that it’s very unhealthy to have an addiction to shopping and that you can be addicted to shopping in the first place. You know, that’s kind of shocking to a lot of people because we might like, some people might be like, okay, I can see like there are financial implications for being addicted to shopping, but it doesn’t harm your health, right? But it kind of does over time. All that stress. is not good for you either.

Isabel Varela:

No,

Amanda:

Okay, so you went shopping eventually and bought some underwear, but how did that feel? Were you scared?

Isabel Varela:

Oh, I was terrified because the way I used to feel whenever I would enter the store, or even before I would enter the store, I would get this rush of adrenaline like,

yes, I’m going to find the perfect dress, this perfect black dress with the heels, and then the anticipation of going to the store. And then right as I enter the store, it’s like this other overwhelming amount of adrenaline and my endorphins, my heart’s pumping. So now I’m walking through the stores and I’m like… I feel like there’s this game and I had to grab all these clothes and put as much as clothes as possible in my arms so I can rush to the fitting rooms and then try on all these clothes and I would always get it. It was a hit of… the endorphins, a hit of adrenaline, a hit of dopamine every single time. So whenever I went to go get my underwear, I was super scared. So I chose to go to Whole Foods because I started learning more about like sustainability. I said, well, let me go to Whole Foods. Let me go get that company or buy from PACT. It’s like PACT underwear. So the first underwear that I purchased. and it was whole foods, so it was a mixture of groceries. So I was all right. But then I needed to get some running shoes because, Lord, that was, my knees were hurting. And I was so scared to go to the store because I was scared that I still had that issue, that, oh my God, what if. what if I still have that same feeling this is going to be so difficult. And when I entered the store, I think it was like one of those like, I forgot what it’s called, like one of those running stores in New York.

I entered the store and I didn’t get a feeling of that rush that I used to have and I’m like really doubting myself like no there must be something wrong. Like well I’m hmm okay well let me try it another day. So I got my running shoes The next week, I didn’t need to get anything. It’s like, well, let me go into the store to let me see how it feels. So then I went into Nordstrom and

I walked through the doors and I didn’t get that feeling. And I’m thinking, there’s no way, there’s no way that this is true. Like this is a reality. And then, so I guess I’m doubting myself. I was like, well, I’m only just leaving. I’m just gonna leave, I need to go home anyway. And then a month later, like, let me try again. I went into the store and I think, maybe, I don’t even know, it was like one of those like cool local stores in New York City. And I walked in the store and I got this overwhelming, and I didn’t feel anything. And I got so overwhelmingly, like, it was a mix of relief.

And then joy and then I just started crying. So then I actually, you know, walked right back outside, crying, walking down, you know, New York City and thinking, oh my God, is this, is this over? So then that was the third time. And that’s when I realized, oh my, oh my God. I think I just, I think I was able to rewire. my behaviors and of course I asked my therapist, now my mentor at that point and he said it’s possible to not, you know, to turn those addictions around and he said what would really be helpful is there’s always that possibility that I could go back to spending that amount of money but the more that I face that truth… that increased my likelihood that I wouldn’t go back because then I kept practicing doing things, going to my other behaviors and not wanting to always go shopping because my experiences started to change. And then that’s when I knew, oh my God, if I can do this, I wonder if anyone else has this issue. And then that just started the whole path of kind of where it leads me to what I’m doing now.

Amanda:

That’s amazing though. I mean this is a big journey and this is a big, I mean it’s a lot of growth as a person, you know. This is like a very difficult behavior to change and to like recover from.

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

So how did this change your entire approach to life?

Isabel Varela:

Oh, so while I wasn’t shopping for that year in eight months, I had to really be resourceful because I had to make a lot of sacrifices. I wasn’t going out and I wasn’t like eating at restaurants because I had so much debt and I had so much work I had to do because I had, you know, three jobs at that point. And So I was making my own products, my cleaning products. So that helped me, it opened a new door to sustainability. And that was in about 2015, whenever I found this like-minded community, the New York City Fair Trade Coalition, and then I saw the movie True Cost. And that right there, that was another wake-up call of realizing… everything about the fashion industry and the truth and the malpractices and how clothes are made and that’s that helped me to really continue on this path of no if I’m going to be in fashion if I’m going to keep doing fashion I want to do it the right way because I was throwing away clothes. I was

wearing things once. I didn’t care. And then you know with my business back then I didn’t. I just. You know, I looked at it as just creating, but I didn’t care about how much people were getting paid, where the fabric was coming from. I was like, I don’t want to do it that way anymore. So if I was able to change that behavior with addictions, like, well then I need to change this as well. So my whole life changed into really being more aware. And then I just went into the rabbit hole of. Oh my God, questioning everything. It’s like, oh my God, I just went through this. Now I have to go through this experience of realizing the truth of the fashion industry.

Amanda:

It’s a lot for sure. I do think that that’s a really good call out though. That’s like the more you learn about it, the more it makes you not wanna buy stuff. You know, I definitely, I mean, sometimes it swings you to this like opposite end where you’re like, I’m never gonna buy anything again. And that’s not realistic either because eventually your underwear do fall apart, right? But like, you know, I have been there too where I’m like, that’s it. I don’t even wanna go. I don’t wanna buy anything ever again. And I… used to like, for example, I used to love going to Target and just like walking around there. I can’t explain it, but like before the pandemic, I’d be like what a treat. Go to Target and just like walk around. Right. Now I’m like, yeah, I don’t want to go there. I don’t care. It doesn’t do anything for me. You know, like it lost its appeal. And I think it’s because I just know so much about the industry and have had time to think about it. But man, I would be like, hard day at work. Maybe I’ll go walk around Target. You know?

Isabel Varela:

Yes!

Amanda:

I’m looking at using shopping as an outlet, like an emotional outlet.

Isabel Varela:

That’s, and that was the behavioral change because I would go shopping. That was also my emotional outlet. When I was sad, angry, if I broke up with someone, if I got in a fight, or if, funny enough, if I didn’t have enough money, it’s like, really, I’m gonna, I don’t have enough money, but I’m gonna go shopping because I’m sad I don’t have enough money.

Amanda:

Yeah, I know. I mean, listen, you say that, there are a lot of people nodding their heads right now like, oh yeah, I feel that, you know, because we’ve been taught that getting something new will make us feel better. And, you know, for people who are listening, like, you know, Isabel is talking about clothes and jewelry and makeup and all that stuff, but like for you, it might be craft supplies or furniture or throw pillows or clothes for your dog or gardening stuff. It’s all kinds of… things that people buy to make themselves feel better. I do think that like, I mean, I read this article a while back. They’re really stuck in my head about how we work so much. We have these long work days because it makes us great consumers because we buy stuff to cope with how tired or stressed out or depressed we are from working so much. And I see that connection for me because And I’ve been my unhappiest at work, which usually involves working really long hours, dealing with difficult situations at the office, we’ll say, difficult personalities. I find myself buying stuff to feel better. You know, and it’s like a vicious cycle. Like you work to survive, but you also work to buy more stuff to make you feel better because you work, right? It’s like

hard to get out of that. And really, it’s like maybe that’s not the right job for you. You know? Maybe the way. jobs function and the way people are treated at work should change, not that we should all go buy stuff to feel better, to cope with our jobs, right? So I think kicking that habit is really, really hard. So now you’ve taken this expertise and you help other people.

Isabel Varela:

Yes, so one of the jobs that I had in New York City, because I’m one of those hyphenated persons, people…I became a master tailor in New York City. So that was one aspect. of really taking care of your clothes. And I started teaching others, hey, this is this is how you can take care of your clothes. This is how you can, you know, make your things last mending and repairing. And then it all went all the way through. Now I coach other women and I just found in my. It’s my fourth business because remember I’ve always had many different jobs here and a lot of businesses here But it’s called repurpose your life and what I’m doing here is I am it’s twofold. So I’m going to be creating a course called the Repurpose Your Life course method, which will be launching at the end of the year, where I’m going to teach other women how to build a sustainable decluttering business and for them to be able to have more time freedom and also gain their own financial freedom. And at the same time, the Repurpose Your Life course method teaches these consultants of the method how to teach others and their clients how to be more mindful. of how they’re shopping, mind, body, and closet. So then also learning how to take care of their clothes and also seeing clothes in a new way. And we also will take all of those pieces that you wanna donate, get rid of and actually bring them to swap shops instead of donating them at the Goodwills or Salvation Armies because it’s like, what is it? Like less than 10%, I don’t even know that very little actually gets sold. So. We will take all those clothes to the Swap Shop, the Sustainable Fashion Community Center here in New York City, and any housewares we’ve partnered up with the House of Good Deeds because these things are going to people that actually need it and then the things that you know can’t be fixed if it’s clothing then we’ll send it to Green Tree Textiles which is already a partner for the New York City Fair Trade Coalition. So it’s really doing things in a healthier way, in a more holistic So it’s teaching others the importance of clothes and like decluttering. Because whenever you do decluttering… there’s an emotional attachment to our pieces. And I realized this because whenever I had to declutter my closet and it was probably two months before I was going to finish paying off all of my debt because it took me seven years, I realized how difficult it was because there’s a lot of clothing that reminded me of my past.

Whenever I was hanging out with different friends that I would shop with, go out and party with that they’re not in my life. And I decided to make a documentary It’s called Fashion Attic, it’s on YouTube, to showcase the raw emotions and feelings that we go through. But. All of the teachings that I’ve gone through is now in the Repurpose Your Life course method. How to live more holistically, how to build a business more holistically. Because now that I started taking care of myself more, I wanted to take care of my things, I wanted to help others, and then that in turn it helps the environment all at the same time. So that’s what this course and the company is all based off. It’s a holistic lifestyle company, helping you to declutter your mind, body, and closet.

Amanda:

I mean, I bet you learn so much about people and their lives when you help them declutter their closet. There’s a lot going on in there.

Isabel Varela:

so much. And interestingly enough is social media has been helpful on that aspect because I started talking about myself and decluttering my jewelry and that started this cascade of people. Wait, you do decluttering? Because interestingly enough. people were more open to talking about decluttering because, you know, shopaholism, addiction, those words and terms, they’re heavy, they’re difficult. And so with decluttering, people a little bit more open. And then once I get there, you know, they’ll ask me questions because knowing and seeing all of my stories and my history and what I’ve been through, then they feel more comfortable sharing or asking me questions of like, do you think this is a lot? of clothes, like am I a shopaholic? So it really helps with the one-on-ones, with the one-on-one clients, with the decluttering, because it’s an emotional, physical, mental journey, spiritual journey.

Amanda:

I mean, there’s so much shame involved too, right?

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

Like the friends who have like very meekly told me at different times that they are struggling with credit card debt. I had a friend who was, back when guilt was still a thing, remember guilt.com,

Isabel Varela:

Oh my God, I remember that.

Amanda:

She was buying stuff from guilt every day and was like, yeah, like I don’t know what to do now. like I can’t afford to get my car fixed, you know? Because I have all this stuff and it’s just, there’s so much shame. It’s interesting because it’s like, we’re encouraged to shop as much as possible, right?

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

Ads, like in social media, all this stuff. But then when it becomes problematic, suddenly it’s your fault and you should feel ashamed. And I would just say for anyone who is feeling that way that there is no shame in this. That this is like… This is just something that happens. And yes, it is work to dig yourself out of, but it doesn’t mean that you’re a bad person or a weak person or that you should be embarrassed at all. Because like you said, we don’t get taught how to manage our money.

Isabel Varela:

No, not at all.

Amanda:

Most people think that if you don’t pay off your credit card, they charge you a couple bucks and it’s no big deal. But actually, interest rates are really complicated, and you could be paying a ton of interest. on your credit cards, which doesn’t make it any easier. Like they don’t teach you about credit cards in school, but they certainly will give you one the moment you turn 18. It’s wild. It’s

Isabel Varela:

It’s so true in college. I remember getting all kinds of, you know, advertisement in the mail. Open up your first card. Receive $200 worth of, you know, credit to use on your visa. And of course I’m looking at this. Wow, $200? Oh my God, I can get those shoes I wanted.

Amanda:

Then you look at the annual fee is $200 or something. It’s like, oh, geez, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that this is something that everybody needs to be talking about more because it happens to a lot of people in a variety of degrees. And a show that my husband and I like to watch is Married at First Sight. And the new season is kind of boring actually, but we will watch that show a lot. It’s like people who have never met are set up and they’re married, right? And of course, I’m sure they’re strategically chosen to be paired together for the maximum amount of drama because some of these picks, these pairs are really, I’m like, what a bad idea. Anyway, so one of the things that happens early on, because it’s always the same, sort of like the episodes kind of lay out the same way every season, is that they have to move in together. These two people who just met each other a couple days ago have to move in together. And they’ll go to the woman’s house and it’s just like 100 pairs of shoes in the closet and all these clothes. And then the guy is like, I don’t know how we’re gonna move all this stuff or how we’re gonna live together. It’s like such a recurring theme. And it’s just like, yeah, that’s just like how we’re taught to live now or expected to live, which is that you should have a hundred pairs of shoes. Like, in the era of like Sex and the City, like I would think, I don’t know, did you ever watch that when it was on?

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god, yes, it was my favorite show and I wanted to be Carrie and then Samantha.

Amanda:

Right? And so the thing is that these ladies are all super rich, except for Carrie. I never understood where her money came from because she just wrote a column once a week. But like, I remember an episode where it literally turned out that she had no savings at all and needed to buy her apartment and couldn’t because all of her money had been spent on shoes. And you know what? That is sad. Not that she should feel ashamed about it, but just that like… That’s, there’s no financial literacy there, right? Like we’re just not taught that like, hey, if you spend all your money on shoes, like Carrie Bradshaw, who you’re supposed to admire, that you might not ever be able to like afford a place to live, you know? Like that was what it really, like it was some situation where basically she was gonna have to like move out and have nowhere to live, but to have like, you know, tens of thousands of dollars worth of shoes. And that really struck me. I was like, they should have talked about that more. It’s not glamorous, but it like points to something, you know?

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

And I feel like these kinds of shows, rather they lead with the headline that like you should also buy a lot of shoes. They don’t say the fine print is, but you might not be able to afford your apartment someday, but don’t worry, your rich friend will buy it for you or something. You know, it’s like, it’s a silly. Okay, so what advice do you give others who are in the same situation where they’re like, I just can’t break the habit?

Isabel Varela:

So something that I do, and it’s not always easy, because I remember having to look at my finances. I, and it’s super simple, super basic. I will either be in person or on the phone. And it’s like, let’s look at how much you’re spending and what you’re spending on. And I’ll do like, break it down to like four categories. Your clothes, your shoes, your bills, and then miscellaneous. put right, write all of them down. And this is in one month.

And then for your bills and expenses, you know, put that at the top. That would be like the expenses, the actual bills that you need to pay and everything else is just, you know, extra. After that, then they give me like an estimate. It’s like, well, this is what I think. Okay, put that down. And then this is how much I think I’m spending. So after they do what they think, and then when they actually look at their income and expenses and how much they’re, you know, it’s going to build and then everything else, that’s when it really becomes uncomfortably real. Because you need to see it. Because sometimes it’s either through looking at your finances or looking at your closet. And depending on which one you’re more open to and inclined to doing, it you need to see how much it’s like having skin in the game. It’s like you see how much money you’re spending and what you keep thinking because you’re not actually tracking your you’re not budgeting. You see how much you’re overspending each month and then realize why you’re still living paycheck to paycheck.

So the first thing that I do with the clients is ask them, do you know how much money you’re spending and how much you’re making? And they’ll always give me some kind of estimate. So then, so I say, please write that down. And then I give them the homework of whether they’re in person or they need guidance, they want me there, whichever one I’m open to. Let’s look at one of your monthly statements of how much you’re spending and on what. Once they look at that, the clients review everything, then the reality… hits them of, oh my God, I’m overspending this amount of money. I thought I was bringing in this amount of money and only spending this. So that’s one way of, you know, getting my clients to understand it’s the most uncomfortable one because finances is really hard, but it’s really important. And then if someone’s super closed, of like, no, I don’t want to look at my finances. Okay, then let’s look at your closet. I want you to pull out all of the clothing that still have tags in them and then add them up. Oh, well, that may take me a while. No problem, you know, we can touch back tomorrow, touch base tomorrow.

Amanda:

Right.

Isabel Varela:

And then again, the reality hits of how much money that they’ve spent. that’s sitting in their closet when they’re already struggling, paying their finances and living paycheck to paycheck. So I do those two things with clients because sometimes it’s painful and it’s really harsh, but once you look at it, you look at the truth, now we can start to set an action plan.

Because the more that we keep avoiding it and running away from it, it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and like our mind and it just Let me just keep doing this. But if you really want to Take that next step to not have to live paycheck to paycheck not have to struggle to stress need to face it. It’s time to face it.

Amanda:

Yeah, yeah, no, it’s true. And I think money is one of those things that’s really hard for people to talk about, especially personal money situation. And years ago, I took a small business class. And in the first session, the instructor was like, listen, we’re going to start with the hardest thing you’re going to do in this class, which is being honest with yourself about money. So I want you all to write down like, what you’re spending every month, and what your credit card debt is, and do you have student loans, and what’s your rent? And you’re all gonna find your credit score. In fact, she asked everyone, raise your hand if you know your credit score, and one person raised their hand. She asked someone, why don’t you know your credit score? And they said, I don’t wanna know, I assume it’s bad. And everybody in the classroom, myself included, nodded our heads like we agreed. Then we all went home and ran our credit, and. Like everybody’s was way better than they thought. We just assumed things were bad. Like we didn’t wanna know the truth, so we never looked into it. And it was really eye-opening for a lot of people to say, like, I have to be honest with myself about what my financial situation is and where I’m spending money, because we’re not often taught to think about that too hard. And we certainly have a lot of discomfort talking about it with others. So I’m sure it’s… very stressful for your clients to talk to you about what they’re spending money on.

Isabel Varela:

It is and it isn’t because once they’ve realized that I’ve been there too and can really understand and empathize at a bigger degree versus like maybe, you know, someone that really hasn’t another speaking to another professional that really hasn’t gone through that.

It’s almost this like. Okay, I don’t feel as guilty. I can share this person’s gonna understand. She’s been through this. So it goes both ways, because it is very difficult, but then it’s also a relief to know that this person has gone through the same thing. So I’m gonna listen to her more, because she’s been through it, and she got herself out of it.

Amanda:

Right.

Isabel Varela:

And I know that she wants to help.

Amanda:

That’s amazing. I’m so glad that people have you to help them.

Isabel Varela:

Thank you

Amanda:

Do you have any other advice for people who maybe aren’t like, okay, I need professional intervention at this point, but I just like need to stop shopping? Like, what would you tell them to do?

Isabel Varela:

Another very simple thing that helped me in the beginning, and this was something I would do as well whenever I was like, okay, I need to stop shopping, I need to slow down. I actually started keeping track of how many times I was going shopping in a month.

That was the first thing. Very simple, how many times you go shopping. The next thing under that would be Why? Why did I go shopping on this day? Can I remember why I went shopping on this day? And sometimes, depending on how open you are, you’ll like, well, I had a bad day. And then so you start seeing what you know, your own pattern. So you’re doing your own self assessment. And this is where it’s your goal and it’s better for you to be as honest as possible so you can see what’s going on. Because once you start seeing your own pattern, then it kind of prompts you to say, oh, I went because I was sad. I did that four times, huh? So it starts to ask, I mean, you start to ask a little bit more questions. And then the next thing after that, if you’re open is how much money did you spend in that month? So then you realize, Oh God, so I spent, let’s say 500 bucks because I was sad.

Amanda:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s a hard one, right? That’s a hard fact to face.

Isabel Varela:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Definitely.

Isabel Varela:

So it’s slowly, slowly doing that. And then the other thing I always recommend is declutter.

Right, and those are all, decluttering would be the one thing that is a little bit easier to look at because then you realize how much you have. And I always recommend everyone to take every single thing out of their closet, put it all in their bed. And so you can see how much. And it’s like this shocking reality of like, oh my God, I have too much.

Or, ooh, I have a lot of things that have tags in it.

I need to look at this. So it kind of makes you, it kind of, it’s that little, it’s like planting a seed of, maybe I should look at this.

Amanda:

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a great idea. I mean, I do agree that you need to take everything out of the closet because I think that many people will find that they have a lot of stuff in there that’s become sort of invisible to them that they don’t see anymore, that’s been hanging out in there for quite a while, that they just like look past, or is buried in the corner, you know? Yeah.

Isabel Varela:

Yes, so many hidden clothes are just chilling in the dark corner. It’s

Amanda:

Yeah,

Isabel Varela:

so

Amanda:

yeah. And some of

Isabel Varela:

true.

Amanda:

us, like, man, my closet situation and the place we’re living right now is horrible. And so stuff doesn’t even stay on the bar, and things will fall, and I’ll lose them, and I’m always frustrated and missing things for three months, and then I go in and take everything out. And what do you know? All the things I’ve been looking for are stuffed on the corner with something that fell on top of them. So it also can just be nice to take everything out and see what you have and find things.

Isabel Varela:

Oh my god, yes. Oh, and you just reminded me of something. I used to say I had the bent bar syndrome So another and this is to bring some humor in if you have if your bar is bent in your closet

Amanda:

Hahaha!

Isabel Varela:

You need that You need to check things out look in that closet take everything out

Amanda:

Yeah, that’s a really good call out. I mean, if you’re having to do really creative hanging to keep things in your closet, where you’re hanging hangers on hangers on hangers, just might be worth taking a look too.

Isabel Varela:

Yes.

Amanda:

For sure, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Isabel. Do you have any final thoughts or words of wisdom that you’d like to share with everyone?

Isabel Varela:

Yes, it’s just to really re-emphasize that all your feelings are okay and you’re still a good and lovable person.

Amanda:

Yes.

Isabel Varela:

It’s a behavior that you’re working on looking at and then you can change it. You definitely can change it. It’s like I look at it’s a skill.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Isabel Varela:

Just like learning how to do your finances is a skill. Learning how to make better, like change your behavior, it’s a skill because it’s a practice, just like riding a bicycle. So it’s like every single time you do it. It’s like compounding interest. I was like, okay, I did it one more time. Okay, let me try it again. Let me try it again. And you’re gonna make mistakes and it’s okay, but you can get right back on, keep going. Because all the tries that you did before, they don’t disappear. It’s just, okay, now let me go back again. It’s the more compounding interest. I’m gonna keep trying.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Isabel Varela:

That’s the thing I’d like to always share.

Amanda:

Yeah, I think that’s so true. It’s a journey. It’s a process. All of those words.

Isabel Varela:

Yes,

Amanda:

Yes.

Isabel Varela:

for sure.

Amanda:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Isabel.

Isabel Varela:

Oh my God, thank you so much. This was really amazing. And thank you for the opportunity to come on here and share with your community.