Episode 127: A #SecondhandFirst Way of Life, featuring Lillian of Retro Colorado Goods

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that loves a good secondhand velvet couch.

I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 127.

Back in January (aka the first month of this year), I spent some time laying out the sort of “pillars” of the Clotheshorse house, if you will. Although one might argue that it’s more of a Clotheshorse stable? I had just finished driving from Pennsylvania to Texas with Brenda and most of my houseplants. The three day drive gave me plenty of time to think about Clotheshorse and where I wanted it to be/where I wanted it to go. Is this ringing any bells for you?

Well, here’s a reminder of those pillars, those load-bearing beams of Clotheshorse:

Progress not perfection: it’s the pursuit of perfection that sets us up for disappointment, frustration, and ultimately, giving up.

The personal is political: your stories help shape the values and actions of others. I want Clotheshorse to be a platform for voices from our community. Hence the regular use of audio essays around here! Last year I worked with others to launch Clotheshorse.world as a platform for photos and written content directly from our community. It wasn’t the right time or team for that project and I definitely learned a lot from it. Until I can build a place like that again, I’m looking to use the podcast as that platform, giving voices to those who are often unheard. That’s really, really important to me. And in next week’s episode, I’ll be introducing the theme for our next round of audio essays (I’m super excited about this one).

Slow fashion is for everyone: conversations and work toward making the slow fashion/sustainability movement more accessible and welcoming to EVERYONE!

Small business is the future: I truly believe this and I want to elevate more small businesses, share their stories, and make shopping small second nature for everyone!

Secondhand first: there’s so much stuff in the world already. Let’s help people feel more confident and empowered to shop secondhand.

Collaboration over competition: why is there so little collaboration within the slow fashion/sustainability community? I want CH to be an agent of change. We need collective action (meaning all of us working together) to change this world!

I’ve been using these “pillars” as both a filter for episode topics/guests AND a road map. Clotheshorse has reached this point where I receive a lot of cold emails from brands, designers, and entrepreneurs in the sustainability space, but often they just don’t feel like the right fit for this platform. And to be honest, I would much rather hear from all of you.

Today’s special guest checks off a lot of these pillars. Lillian is the owner of Retro Colorado Goods, where she sells vintage and secondhand finds via Instagram. She is also a reseller Instagram shop coach and founder of Reseller Social. Today we’re going to talk about lessons she learned the hard way as a reseller and how she wants to share that knowledge with others. We’ll also talk about our personal relationships with stuff and how we could do better. And of course, we’ll break down (again) the myths around secondhand selling.

This is a long convo, so let’s jump right in!

Amanda

All right. Well, Lillian, you know, before we get started, why don’t you introduce yourself to everyone?

Lillian

I will do so yeah, I’m Lillian I’m originally from Tennessee, spent about seven years in Indiana, getting my education in psychology and education. And then came to Colorado about a couple of years ago with my wife and our three fur babies. And they are definitely our children. And yeah, we enjoy going up into the mountains. I ironically, am a big podcast listener. And yeah, I run retro Colorado goods. It’s a secondhand online store, mainly found on Instagram. And I have recently started a page referred to as reseller social. That’s a place exclusively for resellers to talk about what we do, how we do it, and why we’re so passionate about the second hand movement.

Amanda

Awesome. That’s how I found you is exactly doing with second hand. So before we jump into that, I just need to know what kind of fur babies do you have?

Lillian

Oh, my goodness. So we have two cats. We have Oscar who is a rag doll. I know. I know. Ironically, they’re all secondhand pets. Yeah, we got them. I have all his two year olds. But so yeah, Oscars, we’ve been with me the longest. And gosh, he’s like 15 plus pounds of fur and just, I love them so much. And then we have another cat Her name is been and she’s like an eight pound tortoise shell. With a lot of personality. She definitely she’s

Right. Now when we got her but yeah, we were like, Oh, she’s kind of sassy. And like, yeah, they’re kind of known for that. So she’s definitely add some personality and spice to the apartment. That’s her role as our middle child,

And then last but not least, we do have a dog. She’s technically a dog. She’s like nine pounds and pretty much acts like a cat with maybe she was raised with cats. And she’s kind of wary of other dogs. Like she doesn’t really. And I’m like, that’s you. You’re the same and she’s just like now, that’s different and scary. So yeah, she’s kind of skittish. But she’s gotten a lot better in the couple of years that we have. We’ve had her now her name is Juniper, and she goes absolutely everywhere with us. vacations and all. And she’s super fun. Oh, yeah. It’s just she has separation anxiety, and honestly, so do we

Amanda

Yeah, I get it. Like, honestly, every time I’m on a trip, whether it’s like for work, or it’s like a vacation, I hit this moment where I am just like filled with so much longing. Yeah, like I’m just like, I can’t wait. I can’t wait to see them again. I’ll have them laying in my hotel room looking at you know, we’re together every day. I know. It’s funny how it works. Right. But I definitely get that constantly. So I totally understand. Yeah, they run our household. Mind to my flat out. So we’re going to talk about secondhand resale all things related to that today. And, you know, I thought we could get our conversation started by talking about like, why you are so passionate about resale and secondhand?

Lillian

Oh, gosh, that’s an amazing question. Because I did just happen upon it during the pandemic. You know, like I said, I got my education in psychology and higher education and then had moved out to Colorado during the pandemic and actually found reselling on Instagram, some local Colorado shops. And I loved you know, their personalities and their passion for what they were doing and how they had just kind of essentially created something out of nothing was starting their businesses and I got inspired to start mine. And then yeah, I just became really passionate about the community and everybody what everybody’s doing within the community. And yeah, the only time I had really spent shopping secondhand in the past was you know, you go to Goodwill to get stuff for a Halloween costume. You know, like the classic like, yeah, you know, I’m there during Halloween and my dad would take me to Goodwill when I was a kid he was being Big fan. He loved how inexpensive the ties were. Tie. Yes, there’s

Amanda

so many.

Lillian

Yeah, he has dozens and dozens and dozens because he would wear one every day. And so he liked having a really big selection. And yeah, in a department store, you know, it’s like 20 bucks or something per tie. So, so yeah, that was his big thing was getting ties and he would get some clothing and he loved getting friends at Goodwill’s and stuff. Yeah, I know. It’s so smart. So yeah, I had some exposure as a kid and would go to secondhand shops, you know, with my parents, some, but they were just kind of one offs. And I didn’t, it wasn’t really related to any kind of bigger, like, you know, this is good for the environment, or, you know, secondhand is good because of mass production, you know, just kind of something people did. And then yeah, when I found the Instagram community and started my own shop, I’m definitely not one to half heartedly do something. So I yeah, I kind of go in like feet first headfirst, you know, just jump right in. And so I started learning a lot, you know, from your page and pages, like it, you know, talking about overproduction, and consumerism, and why in secondhand is so important, important than making our things last a lot longer. And so when I was finding out about what reselling can do, I just really appreciated the possibility is, you know, it’s kind of an even playing field, you know, you don’t really need a certain kind of education or certification to become a reseller. There’s so many different kinds of resellers out there, you know, there’s clothing, there’s home goods, there’s vintage specific. And so you can really just make it what you want to. And then yeah, at the end of the day, we’re saving items from the landfill, we’re bringing them to people who don’t always have access to those items, you know, physically being able to get to thrift stores, being able to go to Goodwill outlets, Goodwill bins, you know, those aren’t all over the country. And so yeah, it really is like a community. It’s a it’s a country wide community of people who love networking and having these connections of shopping secondhand and want to break free of, of over consumption. And I think that’s very cool. In this day and age, where we’re being told, you know, you need to have this to be cool. And you need to have this to Yeah, be seen a certain way in people’s eyes. And to kind of reject that, I think is is really cool.

Amanda

I mean, I love everything you touched on I think is so important, especially when we talk about second hand is like there are the environmental aspects of it, which are super important, right? The most sustainable thing is something that already exists. But on top of that, I you know, something that I’ve noticed, like your story isn’t unusual, and that I hear over and over again, like this is something I got into during the pandemic, right, and we’re still in the pandemic. But it’s definitely been a turning point for so many of us, myself included. I mean, I started clotheshorse during the pandemic, and I think community and building community in new ways became more important than ever, because we couldn’t go out and go about our day to day lives like we had before. And there is such a strong secondhand and resale community on Instagram right now, that I just I don’t think existed in the same way before the pandemic.

Lillian

No, I agree with you. I agree with you on that.

Amanda

And I just love that on top of resale being the most sustainable option for selling and buying clothing. It also has this side effect, which is this really strong, supportive community and I just see like, sellers selling together I see people building friendships with people they’ve never met in real life myself. There are people I talk to, almost every day that I’ve never met in real life, I didn’t know before the pandemic, and they’re, they’re important to me, you know, and I just love that like secondhand and itself has become this means of bringing people together who are all unified. On a mission that is so it’s so good. Right? Yeah, it’s amazing. And I think that like, I mean, something you know, I’ve been posting about here and there and we’re off a lot actually, on Instagram is this like, vitriol that is always being used? Like it’s I don’t know, it’s always being projected towards resellers on so yeah, like, Oh, you guys are ruining everything, you’re taking clothes away from so called poor people, your, you know your your capitalists are greedy you’re bad bla bla bla bla bla. And I’m like, whoa, whoa, like what I see is this amazing community of people who’s like really working hard to not only save clothes from the landfill, but also educate others. So you one of the things that you’re doing is teaching people how to sell secondhand. Yeah. How did you get into that? Like, what was the evolution into that? And why?

Lillian

Oh, definitely. So in terms of so during the pandemic, I was doing reseller social full time as well as doing some DoorDash

Amanda

That’s how it goes

Lillian

Yeah, what’d you do during a global pandemic? Um, and I was just really trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And, you know, I was applying for lots of jobs and not hearing anything back. And so I was like, Well, I’ve already kind of taken a leap and invested in myself with this business. And I’ve gotten to know the community so much, and it just so saw so many people really wanting help and information. And I saw a lot of other people having that help and information. And either not having an outlet for it or giving it away, just arm their pages when their pages are mainly just for selling. And so I definitely wanted I started reseller social honestly as kind of a hub of resellers to come together and share tips and tricks. You know, if you’re mainly a reseller, but have some way you want to be helping other resellers, you can go to this specific page instead of muddling your Instagram page for your shop. And so I wanted to have a place to bring those community members together because we’re often on our stories asking each other for advice or asking for help with a problem. And you have to make like a close friends list if you don’t want your customers getting confused. And they’re really just, you know, yeah, they’re just like, well, I am not a reseller. You know, you’re not talking to me, is this a space for me? But yeah, over like, especially in the Instagram community, we want to be helpful to each other because there’s not like, this is there’s not like a guidebook to starting resale. You just have to you’re Googling a bunch of random stuff. Just like by yourself on your couch. And then you’re like, Oh, I had to do that. You know, I don’t want other people doing that. And so you want to share that information. And so yeah, reseller seller social is a great place for people to share information they have for other resellers, there’s going to be partnerships with reselling pages who have that info on, you know, how to actually make money what goes into making reselling a business. You know, taxes don’t have to be as scary as they seem.

Amanda

seems scary, though.

Lillian

They seem very scary. I did it for the first time this year. And I’m still here. So that’s some good news. The IRS hasn’t showed him or showed up on my doorstep yet. So. Um, because I was like, I’m a business like, it’s so much more serious now. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, but it doesn’t Yeah, it doesn’t have to be as scary as it seems. And so just having an outlet for that kind of information. And then and yeah, I do have this background in psychology and counseling and Higher Education and Student Affairs is what my master’s is called. And so yeah, I have this background and wanting to help people one on one wanting to educate, wanting to be helpful. And so I’ve become interested in wanting to help coach people, one on one and starting to do seminars and stuff for resellers to figure out how to go about their businesses and not have to do so much trial and error on their own time. You know, because that’s just what people want like a solid This is what you should do. And unfortunately, only a lot of it’s just trial and error. But some of that could be saved. You can save other people from having to go through if you’re like, Well, you know, at least these are like the pros and cons of what I tried. At least you have that information and can figure out what you want to do with it instead of just going in, in the dark, you know, just having nothing to go off of and having to Google random things on your on your couch while you figure out what you’re doing.

Amanda

Oh, no, totally. I was talking to another friend last week. And I said, you know, I can see because I have met so many people through the pandemic, who became second hand sellers. I can see how they are learning things the very hard way sometimes yes, right. Whether it’s like, buyers who don’t pay issues with shipping, calculating, shipping wrong and losing money, like all of these things, like so many people have to learn it the hard way, unlike so many other experiences out there, right? Because they’re, like you said, there isn’t like a go to destination for this kind of job for this kind of business. Because it’s, it’s kind of new, especially when we talk about in terms of like selling online, right? Yeah. So I have a question for you of all of the things that I’m sure you’ve had to learn the hard way

Lillian

where we could save them off. Right?

Amanda

What are the things that you didn’t know? Before that you wish you had known? Oh, gosh.

Lillian

Um, so I probably number one is gonna have to be shipping.

Amanda

I think that’s what everyone would say. Right? Because, like, I haven’t had like, anyone specifically come to me about that. But I’ve seen stuff play out where I’m like, oh, yeah, I have a bad feeling about that. Yeah.

Lillian

Yeah. It, it seems, it doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal. You know, you ship stuff, you ship it, you know, you put it in a box and you put a label on it. And, you know, everybody has shipped, you know, packages to their grandparents or their friends. You think

Amanda

it’s easy when you’re stubborn. I mean, honestly, though, I will say, you know, back remember in 2020. When Oh my God, that sounds like we’re like, Oh, I know. And like November, December, January, when the USPS was just falling. Oh my gosh. You know, I would talk to friends who were like having a really hard time with customers being just so horrible. And I was like, you know, these people have to have sent a package in their life, right? Like at least one, right? They know that after you hand it off. You’ve got like, you’re out of no control. Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, I’m sure everybody learned a lot of stuff. The really hard way, was shipping that year. But it also seems like one of the lessons you kind of have a lot of people unfortunately, I’ve had to learn the hard way is like the pricing around shipping. Yes.

Lillian

Oh my gosh, that’s a big thing on Instagram as well. Because some shops list their items is like this is $20 plus shipping, and other shops will list it as $40 shipped, you know, shipping included. And so that can be great, because then the customer is just like, cool. I’m spending $40 You know, there’s no like, oh, well, I didn’t think shipping would be that much. You know, when the item was $20? You know, sometimes it’s a heavier item and shipping ends up being like $10

Amanda

Oh my gosh, home goods like, Oh, yes,

Lillian

I know, that’s like a big part of the shipping is I wish I kind of like, had some more knowledge about it before jumping in. Feet First with home good.

Amanda

I mean, once again, I know that this is a lesson. So many people have learned the hard way. But like, if there was someone out there who could say, Hey, if you’re gonna do home goods, you need to approach it this way.

Lillian

Well, it’s just like, it’s it’s just like, if you want to kind of like stick your toes in the water. It’s like yeah, maybe do clothing or lemons or some people do like jewelry or vintage buttons and enamel pins, you know, some stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, you’re sticking it in a poly mailer bag. You’re sticking it in an envelope it doesn’t need there’s not as much like craftsmanship to the shipping procedures. And so yeah, I always wish I had kind of not not been so gung ho about just like, picking up, you know, whatever I thought was good, regardless of its weight or its size. And just Yeah, flat out when you’re first starting out. You don’t have that experience of shipping breakable items and it does take skill. It’s just skill you have to learn. And so yeah, I’ve definitely I learned that the hard way as many of us have had to do. But yeah, it’s just like stuff like that you don’t really think about and isn’t really talked about as much. In the Reno for the media that is out there for reselling. People aren’t so much talking about, like, if you’re buying heavy, fragile things, you know, the best way to make money on them is to be able to ship them across the country instead of finding a local buyer. But then you have to ship ship it across the country.

Amanda

Yeah, and like it’s expensive. And you know, like postage rates have been going up. Yeah. Packaging. Like, I think that people forget that packaging. It costs money, especially if it’s something fragile. Yeah, it costs money. It takes time. And I think, you know, we’re gonna talk more about how a lot of people think that reselling is really easy. And like, it’s not fair, that they should have to pay more than something cost at the Goodwill. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Get me started. But like shipping is one of those many areas that like, I feel like I am constantly bringing up that it’s like, shipping is not free. No smart seller, who isn’t charging you for shipping on the surface? Is in fact, charging you for shipping by baking it into the cost. So it’s up to you what yeah, just pay $40 shipped? Or would you rather pay $10 plus shipping? I don’t know. But like, I, I do, I’m not gonna lie. I kind of like when it’s just like, it’s this price shipped. I’m like, Cool. I know what I’m paying.

Lillian

No, I totally get it. I totally get it. And that’s why I have kind of switched over to that. More and more my items are showing up as like $40 shipped. But that’s because I have like a year and a half of totally. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t have done that in the beginning. And I would have been totally off and under estimating shipping and rookie mistakes, like I had a digital scale that only works if you put it on a wooden floor like it won’t work if you put it on a table. No, I know. This is what you get when you buy like a cheapo little scale, you know, you want to just like get started in the least expensive way possible. And so you skimp out on, you know, maybe a nicer scale. And then I paid the price. Getting back charged for some packages wasn’t correct. And so yeah, that was an early on mistake of just like stuff I just had to learn on the go. You know, there wasn’t a website that was like, This is what you need to think about. This is how you get better. And just, it’s just you’re not going to be the best when you first start out. It’s just not going to happen and it will get better. But yeah, having having to, except that I wasn’t as good at this as I thought I would be in the very beginning. Because like you said from the outside in, it’s like why do you do that?

Amanda

Oh, totally. I mean, like, I see it constantly, I still see people getting, like resellers getting bullied on Instagram by so yeah, like, what $100 For that I could go pick it up myself. And I’m like good luck finding that exact thing. Because that is like a find, right? Yeah. So let’s let’s just break it down. So people think that being a reseller is easy, but like, what kind of things do you do in a regular week or day? Or both?

Lillian

Well, definitely so. So yeah, a lot of people think reselling can be easy. And I think a lot of us get into it because who doesn’t love to go shopping? You know, reselling seems like a lot of shopping. And like, technically it is. But what we’re doing is we’re sourcing, we’re sourcing for our shops, and we’re trying to pick up particular items, you know, you’re not just like grabbing a bag of whatever and figuring it out. You’re about Yeah, you’re evaluating items for their condition. You’re evaluating items for how much you have to pay for it. You know, it’s gonna be higher at an antique mall, or a thrift store as opposed to a garage sale or going to the goodwill bins, you know, they do measurements by weight. So it is shopping. But at the end of the day, you know, we’re having to evaluate how much money we’re going to be spending on the items and can we actually make a profit off of what we’re having to spend? And so yeah, there’s some traveling involved. My travel around Colorado. You know, going to different shops going to different estate sales. So some people, I’m not a morning person, but some people go really early in the morning, you know, to get those goodies, you know, be one of the first few people in line. So it’s interesting because the biggest complaint I hear for why people don’t shop secondhand or at least don’t shop secondhand, as much as they would like to, is time. And it’s, it’s like, that’s why you pay somebody, it’s their time, we spend our time doing this. And just because I enjoy what I do, doesn’t mean I don’t deserve to be paid a living, thriving, wait for it. So I am shopping, I am traveling around. But then there’s also you know, the gas and the miles on your car. Those are part of the equation, you know, it’s not really a job where you’re sitting at home all day, or can just be on a computer at a desk, you know, you’ve got to be going out sourcing items. And then once you get them home, sometimes there’s all the time there’s cleaning, there’s always cleaning. But sometimes there’s bending, there’s painting. Because we often find stuff that just needs a little bit of TLC to get into someone’s home, whereas other people would just throw it out because it’s got a paint chip, or, you know, a little crack or something. So there’s the mending and there’s the cleaning. And the cleaning is also something you don’t really think about when you’re first starting, especially with home goods. Because everything needs like a different type of cleaner, a different type of process. Glass is going to be different from cleaning up brass, you know, talk where it’s going to be different from cleaning up wood. So you have to buy all these cleaning products to clean these different things. And you’re learning these skills on how to clean these items up or men these items, you know, a lot of clothing retailers end up learning how to sew. So they can mend clothing or upcycle clothing. But they had to spend their time and maybe their money on a class or something, you know, to learn those skills. Totally. So So yeah, stuff comes up of just like skills you’re having to learn along the way. Um, and then yeah, so that’s all kind of like, what’s going in on a regular basis. And then during the week, I’m having to do record keeping, I have to keep a record of all the money that’s coming into my account. Yeah. Because otherwise tax tax day would be very rough. If I didn’t have I have to keep up with that. Because if I don’t, it gets messy.

Amanda

Probably very fast and easily. And I think that that is one of those things that a lot of people unfortunately learn the hard way.

Lillian

Yes. Guilty. Guilty. Yeah. And so yeah, just something you don’t really think about. But record keeping is something you’ve got to do. And it can be easy just to like bring the items home and start selling them. And then you don’t really remember what you paid for each item. Yeah, you know, and so you do have to keep a record of like what you’re spending versus what you can sell something for. So you’re keeping records during the week. During the week, I don’t typically go a week without like something happening on my page, like a drop, where I’m posting a lot of items for sale, or a live sale with other seller partners. Or I’ll sometimes I’ll do story sales. Those are just items posted to my stories, kind of a quick seller form. But so Yeah, usually about once a week, I’m doing one of those methods to get my products out there. And so you have to do prep for a drop, you know, you’ve got to clean everything, you’ve got to photograph everything, you’ve got to stage everything. You know, do filters and then get them posted to your page. And again, that’s just time it takes a lot of time to do those things. And then if you’re doing live sale, you gotta get your area set up. You’ve got to figure out what items you’re pulling, and then live cells themselves. I really enjoy them and they’re very profitable for me, or they’re extremely energy consuming.

Amanda

Oh my goodness. When I see all of you. I’m like, like wah wah vintage will do it for like, I swear six hours that I can use

Lillian

a machine. Machine. I don’t know where And she’s got like a toddler. I don’t know where energy stores are coming from. But yeah, she’s like live sale royalty, because she’s just got it down pat knows what to do, you know, connects with her customers is really fun live sales. And then yeah, she’s just able to have that stamina, stamina to keep going. But yeah, so that’s how she’s able to do really well on her page is she really utilized live sales and goes live live a lot. But just, you know, that’s just not for everybody. And so yeah, some people can only go live once a month or you know, a couple times a month just for their energy levels. But then once you’ve done a live sale, you have to connect with every single person.

Amanda

I bet I think yeah, I’m like, You got to get all your money and get all the shipping info and I just I’m sure that sometimes that goes really arrive.

Lillian

Yeah, just a can and again, that record keeping skill and, and yeah, it can be a lot because on a website, you know, you just click add to cart, you check out all your info gets sent straight to my computer, you know, and I send off your package whereas on Instagram, you do have to individually message each person, you know, here’s my payment info, can I get your address, sometimes they forget to send the address. And then you have to go back you know, just like it as the flaws of connecting with other human beings and then my flaws as a human being, you know, forgetting to ask for the address sometimes, you know,

Amanda

no doubt it just happens.

If you had told me like three or four years ago that people would be selling live on Instagram or just on Instagram and generally when I believe that when I believe that and I feel like this is something especially selling via live, that really started to come up during the pandemic. And I’ve like wondered like, what’s the advantage of doing it that way? Because it’s so exhausting. I mean, I enjoy coming to coming to these events, whatever you want to call it. Virtually. Yeah, because I feel like I’m hanging out around people like, exactly, totally makes me think of QVC Yes. Tupperware parties

Lillian

is another reference I like to make. Yeah.

Amanda

And it like even I used to when I was a kid like to fall asleep with like, QVC or something on because it felt. I just like listening to the people talk to each other. Like comforting. Yeah, yeah. And so I often if I see a seller is going live, I’m like, yeah, I gotta tune in and give it a listen. And so I can see why it’s so appealing for us in the audience. But why is it good as a seller?

Lillian

Oh, that’s a great question. Um, so I really enjoy it because so every single time I go live with partners, I gain new followers. Makes sense. Yeah. Because you’re everybody who goes live together, all their followers get a notification. And so you end up joining the live, because you’re following one person, and then you like all these people, you end up following them all. And so and people who are tuning into live sales and following you, you know, those are people who are actually interested in being a customer, they’re interested in your goods, you know, they didn’t follow because they liked your funny videos, or, you know, just like a random reason, people can end up following your page, but they’re really likely to become a customer. And so even if they didn’t purchase directly from me during that live sale, you know, they catch the next one, they ended up following me and then going to check out what’s available on my page, and buying something else. So it’s a great way to connect with people who are really interested in actually purchasing from you who want to be buying things, secondhand live sales, I also tend to have the most sales at one time. Yeah, so I tend to have I would say it’s kind of for me, for just me, it’s about like 5050, on selling from my page versus from live sales. And so with live sales, you’re just showing off the items people can buy, all at once. And you can also actually get the opportunity to talk about your item. So just like you were saying on that QVC what they’re talking about on there is a talking about the different ways you can wear something you can style something, the different ways you can use something, how unique it is. And the only way we can do that is through our live sales, we can actually talk about the history of the items or how they could be used and styled in your home. And oh, during live sales, were able to take requests, you know, people can be like, Hey, I’m looking for blue drinking glasses, and it’s like, oh, somebody has those. And you show them off, and they end up purchasing that. So we can often find exactly what people are looking for. Or it’s like, oh, I don’t have blue glasses right now, but I’m going sourcing this weekend, you know, let me take down your name. And then you’re able to make those direct connections with people so they end up purchasing from you.

Amanda

Yeah, you definitely build relationships. Like I noticed this. It’s big. Two different Instagram lives with sellers where I see recurring customers, everyone knows each other. They’re like, Hey, hi. You know, yeah, feels it does it feels actually more like a Tupperware party than QVC? Because QVC interaction. Yeah, right. Because like, on QVC people call it which was always like my favorite part. I’m calling I’m calling from Florida, this time about Joan Rivers, makeup or whatever you want, like love that so much. Right? But this is like different because it feels like real relationships are being born. Not only between the seller and the potential customers, but between the customers themselves. Oh,

Lillian

yes. Yeah, cuz they like cool. Yeah, cuz the comments just pop up and everybody who’s on the live, whether you’re a seller on video, or someone just watching, you can see all the comments. And so yeah, it’s just like a big party a lot of the time. And just personally, I work from home. And I don’t really have direct co workers or I don’t really I don’t have like an office I go into. And so I love chatting with people online, but lives are an opportunity for me to have like a face to face conversation with people. Just I really enjoy the social aspect and yeah, you get to know people and you figure out who you really like going live with and you know, who has particular products and you come up with themes and stuff like that together. So yeah, I just really enjoy the social aspect and connecting with other sellers but as well directly with our customers because we’re essentially personal shoppers. If you really think about it, because yeah, you make a request for of me and I’m gonna keep an eye out for it. And we’ll let you know. First I’ll just send you a direct message being like Okay, this thing you asked for I found, you know, if you want, I’ll pick it up for you. And so yeah, I think people get a lot of enjoyment out of that because not everybody has the privilege of time to be able to shop secondhand or shop. So unconventionally, because just, you know, let’s face it, it’s convenient as all heck to walk into a target, walk to the drinking glasses aisle. And there’s four different kinds of blue drinking glasses you can pick from, you can just grab it, and you go, I totally get it. But convenience, you know, especially if you’re full time you have kids, you know, your responsibilities keep piling up, and you just need shopping to be convenient.

Amanda

Oh, totally. I feel like what you know, when people shop secondhand, from a reseller, what they’re, I mean, yes, they’re paying for the thing, but what they’re really paying for is the service. That’s the service of the time, the cleaning the mending the touch ups. And I think, you know, we’re also obsessed with like, getting a value. But I think that what happens is we have the wrong value in mind.

Lillian

Oh my gosh.

Amanda

Right. Like, it’s like, yes, you’re getting the thing. But more importantly, you’re getting this very special thing that someone found for you, cleaned, repaired, mended, whatever it needed this thing that you were never going to find out on your own. Maybe if you spent months looking for maybe, right coming right to your door. Like I think that that is what we need to like reframe. We get so hung up. We think about value, we’re always thinking about stuff. Yeah, so like direct cost. Right, right. And sometimes the stuff isn’t the value, or isn’t the biggest part of the value. I mean, this is something I’m like, constantly preaching about, but like, we are so hung up on stuff having more value than anything else. And so someone will say like, Yeah, well, you bought that thing for $5. Why are you spending it selling it for 50? It’s like, Yeah, but that’s not all you’re getting, you’re not just getting this thing. Right, right. So I don’t know, I don’t know how we drill that into people’s heads. But I just think it’s so important to remember that there’s all this work going that is more than just you walking into the goodwill grabbing something and leaving.

Lillian

Yeah, and it’s I don’t know, I think especially from the outside, it can be hard to see how, especially with resellers being such like a broad term, but resellers do have skills and resellers do have you know, wait, they know how to go about this stuff. And something really interesting, I binge watch the show recently, it’s

Amanda

called Swap Shop. Tower sounds great.

Lillian

It’s incredible. Oh my gosh, I don’t know how I just found it. But so it’s on Netflix. There’s only two seasons. So far, I believe it’s still coming out. But so sweatshop is a radio show, based in Tennessee. But so people call in and they’re like, Hey, I’m at such and such, you know, property, you know, Greensboro, here’s my number, we have all this kind of stuff available, just feel free to come on by. And people will almost get in their cars. And if it’s close, you know, they’ll drive over there. And so it’s a giant network of resellers being able to connect through this radio show. But so the TV show follows Oh, I don’t know, maybe about half a dozen pairs of resellers based in kind of like Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, that area. And it’s so interesting, because they’re all kind of friendly, but they all have their different expertise of what they’re going for. So there’s a pair of guys from Atlanta, and they’re typically looking for sports memorabilia, Razorback sneakers, you know, that kind of stuff 90s memorabilia. So that’s what they’re showing up for and then somebody else is showing up for the furniture. And somebody else owns an auction house, you know, so they just take items and they don’t refurbish them at all and just sell them at their auction house and then somebody else you know, mainly sells online. So it’s interesting to see how they all like operate their businesses, and then they end up at these same places, you know, to source from, um, but anyway, what I was specifically thinking of is there’s this couple, the wife is from Japan, she moved to East Tennessee to study bluegrass music, which I think is

Amanda

just so cool. fascinating already right?

Lillian

I’m just fascinated by that. Like you left Japan for Eastern. See I grew up there so I can be like, That’s wild. Um, I wouldn’t leave Japan for East Tennessee No offense. Love you Smoky Mountains. But But anyway, so she they had met and so they had like a food truck and they do music, you know just kind of do a lot of stuff. But they’re resellers, specifically American memorabilia selling to people in Japan. Right, so they were getting a lot of like vintage glassware, they loved anything that said, like United States or had different states on them. They picked up a pack of like, paper, Budweiser coasters. And they were like, Oh, we could get like $25 Each for these in Japan. And so it’s just like, yeah, they can make that kind of money off of it. Because they know, their market. They know how to sell that stuff. It doesn’t sound great to me to make $25 off of a coaster like Absolutely. But I don’t know, the first thing about connecting with customers in Japan, you know,

Amanda

our language? Totally. And they just send it over there.

Lillian

Yes. So they had to become experts in like cars, the customs totally getting bailed through. So it’s a ton of work on their end. And they’re able to do that because of their expertise. And so just flat out, I’m not gonna make $25 on a coaster, that’s just not gonna happen, right. And so it’s interesting, because they can talk about what they can do. And it’s just like, oh, you know, you’re gonna buy this thing for this amount of money. And you can make that much, you know, why can’t I just do that? Or why can’t that guy selling it to you just do that. You just need, you know, that guy who lives in East Tennessee and is trying to unload stuff from his old barn. You know, he doesn’t know he doesn’t know how to sell these things to people in Japan and ship them over there. And so he just he doesn’t have those skills and expertise. And so how he can make money is selling them these things, selling that couple these items. And it’s just not his worry, you know, what happens after that? Because right, he wouldn’t have been able to do the same thing.

Amanda

Totally. I mean, I think that that’s what’s really important is like, no one is getting rich quick off of resale. Like, gosh, no, it’s so much work, no matter whether you’re selling a course coaster for 20 bucks or a bunch of T shirts for $5. Like there’s so much work involved and risk. Yes. Can’t just like take some time off, you know, because like, Yeah, you don’t get paid vacation. Yeah. And so I think that like we think I mean, and to be fair, I do see like, sometimes Poshmark will sort of market this idea of being a second hand seller as something you’re gonna get rich off of really like it has a little bit of like, MLM.

Lillian

Oh, yes, yeah, just buy this Lululemon and this Chanel, and you know these things, and you’ll just find them and you’ll sell them. I

Amanda

know, I get out there. And it’s like, What do you mean? Whoa, no, you won’t, you know, every time I talk about resale, like, they’re always like, the same questions come up. And one is like, Well, what about people who go to TJ Maxx or something, or buy stuff on sale at Target and resell it, and I’m like, here’s the deal. If they are picking the right stuff, which is a skill in itself, then they’re gonna sell it and make a living. Congratulations, if they’re bad at it, and have no skill and are randomly buying stuff, or charging too much, or all these other things. No one’s gonna buy it exactly. They’ll have to figure it out and learn it the hard way and pivot from there. And that’s the thing, like people who get angry because someone’s going to Target and buy all clearance stuff and then reselling it, hey, guess what? If people are buying it, then they’re doing something really smart.

Lillian

Right? I mean, it’s just like, like, I’m not figured out how to do that. And I don’t know, it’s just like, I mean, it’s clear and stuff at Target, you know, it’s like, what are they really taking, quote, unquote, taking? Um, you know, it’s like, Where were these items going to end up anyway, you know, probably in the trash or shipped off to TJ Maxx where they also won’t sell.

Amanda

Totally, I know, right? That’s like one of those things where I’m just like, Y’all are mad and you don’t need to be because there’s no reason to be mad right now.

Lillian

Yeah, I don’t know. It’s just it’s something about people. It’s the fact that they make can make money off of that. I don’t know if it’s like, I wish I had done that. Or I’m mad that I, like, stayed in school for so long and didn’t do that. I don’t know. Like, I get it.

Amanda

Yeah, that can be part of it too. But I Just do think that like, people think it’s easy. And even if you’re just going to target or TJ Maxx or whatever and buying the clearance stuff and reselling it, there’s so much work. I mean people who resell on like Poshmark or Depop, or Macari any of those platforms, like they have to also take photos and oh, yeah, beings and deal with all the messages and everything else. And yeah, messaging us in fees.

Lillian

Ah, yeah. And it doesn’t cost nothing to ship stuff. It doesn’t matter if it’s paper products or clothing. You know, you have to pay for materials to ship it and the actual shipping itself.

Amanda

Totally, totally. And like your time, your time is a valuable, you know, yeah, I was talking to another friend of mine who’s like, I spent hours every week just responding to messages. Like, not even I don’t even make money off of responding to messages. And there’s hours of it. And I wasn’t part of a business. Yeah, I was like, I feel you because it’s the same way with the podcast, like, oh, gosh, I’m buying anything from me. And I get messages all day, every day. And some of them are just like, Oh, hey, I just wanted to say, hey, oh, gosh. But then others are like, here’s a really complicated question. That’s going to be at least seven paragraphs to answer to answer this for me in DM, like, what? I have a hard problem

Lillian

not answering, even if it’s a question like that, where I’m like, I don’t have time for this. Anyway, here’s my detailed explanation.

Amanda

I know, that’s the thing. I’m always like, I don’t have time for this. All right, what do you do with all these different sources you could use? And here’s my other advice. And like, here’s my take later, one message down, you know, and so I, I get it like, but these are, this is like, the unseen labor that a lot of people don’t recognize. And like, it’s, it’s, it’s work. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. Like, like, when we’re talking about someone selling stuff online, like, we need to recognize that that’s work too, and that they should be paid for it. And that should be part of the selling price.

Lillian

Yeah, it’s just, it’s, it’s like fine if you don’t think that person should be doing that don’t buy from them. But at the same time, can we really blame anybody trying to make a living in America? Oh, my God. I mean, I could have a whole episode on that.

Amanda

It’s like, working class people, being mad at working class people. And what we really should be doing is working together to make things more equitable in the world. And yes, I’m mad that you sold a thing that one time and it’s like, yeah, made money. Be mad at Elon Musk. Obviously, if we’re gonna be mad at people, like let’s take down, like, people who can spend $43 billion on Twitter. I can’t do that. I can’t even spend $43 on Twitter. You know, I always tell Dustin, I’m like, people are sending me DMS on Instagram. Like, I’m Jeff Bezos. And like, I’m sorry. Save your anger for him. Yeah, for me gonna be mad at Jeff Bezos, or Elon Musk, or all these other people who don’t give a fuck yeah, you know, quality of life for so many human beings. And so, yeah, I think I mean, the whole resale thing. It’s just been so controversial for so long, and it really doesn’t need to be and like, you know, if you want to be mad about prices going up at thrift stores, because I’m sure this is something you see out there too. Oh, yes. You know, ultimately, places like the goodwill, they give that stuff that they’re selling for free for free. So they’re making conscious choice to sell it for the price that they’re selling it for. And you know, part of that is because they need to pay rent electricity transportation all the workers there right tip price tags cash registers, music, yeah. Conditioning, right. Again, the kind of like unseen, right plowing the parking lot when it snows emptying the dumpsters? Like moving stuff around, like bags, all these things right in that, like, that’s why you pay for stuff at Goodwill, of course. Exactly. So, you know, technically nonprofit, but kind of operates like a for profit company. Right. Right. And so, those if, I don’t know like the price is being higher at thrift stores. That’s the choice of the thrift stores that has Nextly sellers.

Lillian

Yeah, it’s such an interesting take that higher prices or thrift stores are like directly related to resellers, or, I don’t know I see comments, like really be hidden from fellow resellers, like really setting resellers out as kind of like villains. You know, like, you know, pouncing on products at the stores and you know, leaving with a cart full of stuff and it’s just, I just I don’t see any evidence for someone leaving a store where the carts full of stuff and that store just has nothing else to offer. Oh,

Amanda

I just I know that Have its there’s so much stuff. My daughter was working for the goodwill in 2021. Yeah. And they said that, like only 10% of the stuff that came in ever made even made it out on the sales floor. Oh my goodness, the pickers. I think that’s what they’re sorters that’s what they’re called. Oh, okay, I have to be so picky about what goes out on the floor, because way more comes in and could ever be accommodated on. Oh, yeah.

Lillian

It’s like, yeah, why are we taking personal responsibility for just unloading our stuff? Oh, good. Yeah, girl. I actually.

Amanda

I mean, I’ve heard stories and people donating stuff that they know that’s not donatable Oh, just straight up trash. Trash straight up trash. And so, you know, I think that we like we look at for some reason, we’ve decided to villainize these resellers. Yes. But the reality is that like, I mean, much like you got into resale during the pandemic, because like, other stuff wasn’t working out, right. So many people have been turning to reselling, Yes, you too, because it allows them to make a living, whether it’s because they’ve got kids at home, they’re unemployed, or they’re unable to get a job, they need a second income. God knows we all gotta have like, 73 jobs to make a living now. Yeah, might be one of them. You know?

Lillian

Yeah, it’s so interesting to be in this day and age of like fighting for 15. And, you know, all jobs are good jobs, and all labor is valuable. And it’s like, why is reselling Zima now for those, and I just, it may be, I don’t know, with reselling. Like, you don’t need anybody’s permission to do it. You’re like, you don’t get hired by somebody, you just you decide to do it, and you’re doing it. And so I could see there being some like, so you just decided to do this, and you just decide what the prices are. And you know, like, you’re just declaring this is how it is like, I don’t know, there’s, it’s just like a direct line to like, yeah, I made these decisions. And it’s like, Who gave you the authority to make those decisions and like, I don’t need any kind of authority. You know, I’m just an entrepreneur, and this is what I’m doing. With my time, I think it’s a little weird for other people to just see, resellers just make these decisions of their own free will. And it’s like, you don’t have a boss, you don’t have someone declaring what you have to do. It’s like, I don’t know, they’re not like for the high prices at the prices at thrift stores, you’re not really blaming the employees and you shouldn’t be but they’re just having to do what’s coming down from corporate and it’s like, oh, okay, well, it’s just what corporate decides, you know, why aren’t you upset it corporate, that they made that decision to up those prices so much? And I don’t know, it’s the fact that resellers are just like, yeah, these are what the prices should be. I declare that and it’s, I don’t know, maybe it’s a little intimidating or something.

Amanda

Yeah, yeah, I don’t I don’t know. I mean, like, what I’ve heard from some people who work in thrift stores or have at some point, yeah, there’s is that often the thrift stores themselves are kind of like villainizing resellers as well? Yes, come in and buy things. But for like no particular reason, because it’s like, no matter what the thrift stores getting their cut, exactly. I it’s there’s just like this villainize ation of resellers. That makes no sense. And it’s coming from all ends and, you know, once again, like they’re doing a legitimate service, like I work constantly I don’t have time to go thrifting all the time. Like I used to exactly I’m excited to be able to buy secondhand items that I otherwise I’d be a target. You know, what is

Lillian

buying like Canvas decor? And yeah, just like stuff that everybody has. I mean, it’s just

Amanda

exactly I think it’s it’s just such a service.

So I don’t want to steal all of your trade secrets because I want people to go to reseller social to learn more. Okay? But I wanted to ask like, you know, something that has come up a few times whether you realize it or not, is this idea of like sort of skill and strategy involved in being successful as a reseller, there was this like, these meme videos that were going around years ago or something, I’ll be like, I’m a visual merchandiser. What people think my job is what it really is that kind of thing.

Lillian

Oh, I 100% know what you’re talking about. I do remember those. It was like six months they were around yeah. like what my parents think I do what I do? Uh huh,

Amanda

exactly. So I think the average person who’s never been involved in resale or maybe is just like not even much of a Thrifter or shopper thinks that all you do is you get in your car, you drive over to the goodwill, you get car, you fill it to the top, you leave you go home, you’re done. Right? I happen to know that anytime I set my mind, I’m looking for something specific. To take me minimally second, six months. Oh, yeah. Or else I can’t shopping. Right? Yeah. So what is your advice? For resellers? In terms of like, I don’t know, like a strategy of attack. For sourcing? Yeah, going out and finding what to sell?

Lillian

Definitely. So again, we you know, you asked me earlier, kind of what I wish I had known going into it. And if I’m being honest, like your best bet is really not to source from thrift stores unless you have.

Amanda

I mean, like, I can say this as a very avid Thrifter. Yeah, and a person who tries to shop secondhand first, for everything in my life, whether it’s like a colander, or a pair of shoes that you are looking for something specific. If you are limiting yourself to thrift stores, it’s going to take you a long, long time. And when you do find it, you feel like you won the lottery,

Lillian

because it feels so good.

Amanda

Right, right. And so like I this idea that like, I get it that it’s sort of perpetuated because some secondhand shoppers do at least use thrifting as part of their like sourcing, right? And they’ll like post a video of them with a big car at the Goodwill but like, oh, yeah, no, that’s like one time out of 50 that they’ve sourced because other times they’re going somewhere else, or they went and they only had one thing in their cart, you know? Yes, how it goes.

Lillian

So yeah, definitely, with thrift stores, it can be pretty hit or miss. And then I don’t know, I just I never felt comfortable leaving a thrift store, particularly with like a giant cart full of stuff. Because I am privileged to have a car to have a functioning car with gas money, I can go to any thrift store that I like. But I can I can shop any secondhand any way I like. Because I have those privileges. And so I could be you know, sometimes mindful of buying too much at once. But at the same time, I really don’t judge resellers who do have a cart full of stuff. Because whenever they’re showing off the thrift store, there’s tons of stuff on the shelves. I don’t think I mean, obviously, I cannot speak for all resellers. But, you know, we’re not trying to go into barely stocked stores and take what little bit,

Lillian

they have

Lillian

a monster, we’re just we’re not, we’re not monsters. And if I walk into, it hasn’t happened to me, because Colorado has an abundance of secondhand. But if I walked into a thrift store, and there’s barely anything there, you know, maybe I look around for myself, you know, just to see what they have. But yeah, I’m not sourcing for my store from there. Because yeah, it’s just it’s not abundant. I don’t know the situation of the community. And then just back to advice for reselling. It’s really not your best bet. In terms of quality of the items, you know, they’re the state that they’re in. And the cost, I mean, it seems like not a big deal to spend $5 on something, but if you but if it’s fragile, and you want to be making a profit, you know, it’s probably got to be priced at $30 to make a decent profit off of it. And sometimes you need to look at that item. And it’s like, gosh, is this worth $30? And, and if it’s not, you know, you’re gonna have to sell it for a lot less and you’re not going to be profiting in a way you should be. And so that I’m very picky when I’m in thrift stores and I honestly I haven’t been going to thrift stores for a while because I found the goodwill outlets in Colorado Springs. I’ve been obsessed ever since my first trip. And so So yeah, I’ve really it’s another hard lesson to learn but you are a business and you should be bringing down your overhead as much as possible. And so that includes what you’re spending on the secondhand items and so my preference is definitely going to estate sales, especially like the later into the estate sale you go the more deals

Amanda

interesting okay that is a great pro tip. Yes, it’s Thank you gotta go like first thing.

Lillian

No estate sales are so interesting because I had never been before it started the shop and there is just a lot to just learn by word of mouth learn by showing up and I have pretty bad anxiety. And so that was not great.

Amanda

For me, I can’t handle I need

Lillian

a detailed guide, I need photos of what I’m doing. So some of it’s just like, you just got to chill out. Nobody’s gonna yell at you. I mean, they’re very relaxed environments, even though you’re going into someone’s home. But yeah, stuff like estate sales. Yeah, usually the last day of the estate sale will be 50% off all tags. At the least sometimes it’s even higher. A lot. I hear a lot of people just be like, Yeah, I went and none of this stuff sold. And they just gave it to me.

Amanda

Wow, that is a very pro tip. Yeah, because

Lillian

again, overhead, like they’re giving it to you for free, but they would have lost money having to transport it somewhere else that’s right, and get rid of it, somehow, they would have dropped it off with goodwill. And most of that would have gone directly a goodwill would have paid to transfer it somewhere. And they could have just given it away for free. And so that’s why that ends up happening sometimes is people don’t want the hassle and the cost of having to figure out what to do with it. Yeah, and they’ve had multiple days of making money on other items. So So yeah, I’ve shown up I’ve like one an online auction showed up at the house to pick it up. And there’s like a shelf of stuff that didn’t sell that they’re, you know, giving away doing for $5. You know, something like that. So yeah, if you want the deals definitely go later into the estate sale. But if you’re looking for something like you saw something online, that was really cool. You’ll want to be like, in line early as possible to the estate sale. And yeah, once they let you in you just dark for that item. Which is interesting. I know, I’m not one of those people. Like I said, That is not my vibe. I am not about to fight somebody over some vintage. I’ll get there a little later. And I still always find good stuff. So yeah, I really recommend state sales. They can be lower a lot lower in cost. Also, usually like you’ll buy a bunch of stuff, and they’ll be like, Let’s do 30 For the whole lot. You know, instead of it just being particular prices, so I get to estate sales, and then the bans are really a game changer, the goodwill outlets where you pay by the pound so with that, you know you’re not paying an individual i for individual items. And yeah, you’re just paying by its weight. So I go in and I fill up like an Ikea bag worth of stuff. And I’m like lugging it around in there. And I think the most I’ve ever walked out of there spending was like 40 bucks on my giant IKEA bag. Oh, yeah. And so yeah, with everything in there when you break it down, you know, I’m getting this stuff first since and stuff that costs are is really light, you know, I’m basically paying nothing for it. And these are the items that didn’t sell and the Goodwill stores or like you were saying that 90% That didn’t end up on the shelves. Yeah, that heads to the trash or it heads to the goodwill outlets.

Amanda

And then the trash and then the trash. Yeah.

Lillian

So yeah, I liked the bins because that stuff is like headed for the trash. And sometimes stuff is like chipped or a little broken and it can still be perfectly valid even though it’s not up to Goodwill’s standards so um so yeah, I really enjoy going to the bins because it really brought down my bottom line in terms of what I’m spending on goods for the shop and then I don’t have to be increasing my prices as much you know, as I gas is going going up and sourcing has started to go up you know, especially in thrift stores. So yeah, it’s like, oh, no, are resellers gonna become having to you know, push their prices up even more? And it’s like yeah, it’s just like a fact of running the business but again, we’re not it’s everything. We’re not becoming millionaires, billionaires off of this. Just trying to feed our families for the most part.

Amanda

Exactly. And this idea that like people who are resellers are greedy or evil capitalists or it’s like, No, dude, we’re just trying to exist within this system.

Lillian

Yeah. And it’s, you know, even if a reseller is making six figures, I don’t think they should be villainized you know, they’re just good at what they do. And there’s plenty of goods to go around. And, again, making six figures is not raking in the billions, you know, making big, big impact, you know, cutting down bridges to fit our yachts, you know, that’s

Amanda

not exactly it’s not gonna be us. Everybody I know, even like my friends who I would say, like our successful reseller. Yeah, they are all like they’re doing okay. But like, they don’t have much of a safety net, I’ll do my not definitely or, and they have a really hard time, taking time off working like 24 hours a day, sometimes I swear. And like, you know, their future is just as uncertain, uncertain as a lot of hours where they’re just like really happen, you know, and I think, I think that’s really important to remind everyone like, yes, being a reseller can be great for many different kinds of people and giving them access to making a living that maybe they normally wouldn’t have, because of like, where they live, right, like, you know, health issues, or their children or whatever. But like, no one is living this like luxurious, great life from it. Like they’re working, everybody’s working hard. And for

Lillian

the most part, it’s not their full time job. Most resellers either have a different full time job or have multiple part time jobs, you know, in addition to reselling. And, and yeah, it definitely takes time to become like full time and be able to fully support yourself. Because, again, yeah, you’re having to pay for your own health insurance. Any kind of sick days vacation, have to save up to be able to take those, you know, you don’t get paid for those. Or something that was coming up, especially with the Etsy strike is people not everyone has the privilege to be able to take time off from their job. You know, if they are going to take a week off, they have someone else watching their shop and shipping out items. And you know, we don’t we don’t get sick days, we don’t get vacation. So yeah, there’s definitely like, Yeah, we don’t have we’re our own bosses, and we create our own schedules. But we’re having to pay our own, whatever, you know, I don’t have a job that pays for the gas I spend driving around doing my business stuff. And yeah, we have to pay our own fees on all these listing sites, which is why you and I were talking about why people use Instagram. And it’s to avoid a lot of those listing fees. Especially when you’re trying to figure out how to make a profit, and then got these listing fees coming out. And it’s like, cool, I made negative $4 on that sale. And so, so yeah, I mean, it has a lot of pros, but also Yeah, it’s scary not to have a 401 K, you know, it’s scary not to have this guaranteed check every month, or every two weeks are scary. Yeah, it’s like you know what money you’re getting on which day. And you can make plans and definitely for resellers, it’s more up in the air. And that’s why it is so I’m kind of in awe of resellers who are able to make that much money and fully support themselves, because you just you know, all the hard work that went into that.

Amanda

Absolutely. It didn’t just like happen.

Lillian

And it kind of can seem like it can just

Amanda

happen. I mean, that is that’s the myth, right? Like there are plenty of makers too. Oh, yes. People think are like making a killing. And it’s like, actually, like, maybe they’ve reached the point where a lot of people know who they are, but like, how much do they really sell? How hard are they working? How much? Are they really paying themselves exactly complicated. The reality is that as long as you are one person doing your job, there is a ceiling on how much money you’re ever going to make for sure. And that is why people get into you know, like, starting their own line and doing mass production, yelling and whatnot because otherwise there’s a pretty low ceiling and I’m not saying that either answer is right. But I understand why these things happen because there’s a lot of privilege involved in being able to just be like I’m a one person show and I have a great life and I you know like I travel all the time or something like that. Like it’s it’s not as black and white. I mean I I always say like black and white thinking I am skeptical of any of that. Yes, something or someone is fundamentally wrong. Right. And that’s that. And I think there’s just a lot of that thinking going on about resale. And it’s because no one’s spending the time to think about how much more complicated it really is.

Lillian

Yeah, there’s definitely kind of, it’s interesting, because if you go on Google and you just Google like, reselling, or what is reselling, you know, and it’ll fill in. Totally, and what pulls up first is just like, is reselling bad. Um, and I’m like, What kind of question is, oh, you know, it’s your, it’s kind of hard to find that many things, which is like, 100%. Through and Through, this is bad. Um, and it’s just like, interesting, too, because bad can mean so many things. And it’s like, do you mean bad for the environment? Do you mean bad for the economy? Like, what’s the bad here? And so yeah, it’s interesting that people will just kind of take this blanket approach blanket statement. reselling is bad. And, you know, you kind of dig a little deeper, like, where did you hear that? What did What do you mean by bad? You know, what, what’s, how are you backing up these claims? You know, they usually can’t really follow up on those questions, and just, it’s not like I’m trying to argue the opposite point, you know, 100% good, because you’re also going to be hard pressed. Anything that’s just like, 100%. Good.

Amanda

It’s true. Every every supplement you take every place you go every little

Lillian

complicated and everything. The whole, the whole basketball life is complicated. It’s, I would

Amanda

say that’s a great mottos embroider that. I would probably buy it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I do think like, you know, this idea that reselling is bad is something that has been repeated so often. It was an opinion, an emotional reaction. Yeah, that turned into fact and like another example of untrue statements becoming fact is something that I have received a lot when I talk about some of the Union leather being clashing. Oh, one, you know, there are many ways to oh my god, this is not an appropriate euphemism. There are many ways to skin a cat, right? Oh, yeah. Right. So when we talk about like vegan leather versus leather, it’s very complicated. There’s no easy answer. And when we talk about, like, you know, one really great option for some people is secondhand leather. So, yes, I get a lot of messages from people that say, the thing about secondhand leather, is that when people see you wearing it encourages them to buy brand new. I’ve heard this too. Do you have any data is there like a study that proves that because just in my experience as a buyer, where I’m constantly thinking about people’s consumer behavior, I can tell you that I have never seen a direct correlation between secondhand leather and new leather, because the price difference is pretty astronomical. Right? You could maybe get a second hand leather jacket for 50 bucks, as opposed to a brand new one’s gonna be like 500 as to two totally different people. And in my experience, actually, what secondhand leather may lead to if it’s going to lead to anything is people buying vegan leather. Oh, to my right, and like even still, I have a I can’t see any statistics around that. But I will tell you like when I was working at one of my jobs where we sold both real leather and it was all like $500 Oh, wow, like fake leather. That was like 60 for every one real leather jacket that we would sell. Sell like 500 fake leather ones. Wow. I think this idea that seeing secondhand leather leads to purchasing new leather is so erroneous. Yeah, it’s been repeated constantly. And I feel like it was probably one day someone who was like, Well, seeing secondhand leather might lead people to buy brand new leather, right? And just repeat. Right? Right. repeat it and repeat it. And I feel like that’s what happened with this whole like, reselling is bad. It hurts poor people and hurts people of color. It is greedy. It’s capitalist, but it takes it takes away clothes from thrift stores, all the stuff like I think it’s been repeated so many times that in our opinion, turned into a fact.

Lillian

Yes. And it’s like, it’s always like I heard it on the internet.

Amanda

Where everything you read is 100% true, obviously. But I feel like it’s like up to us to like debunk this as Yes. Because if people could hear enough that reselling is bad, and believe it’s a fact that perhaps if they heard enough that reselling is good Good, they will turn that into a fact. Oh, wow,

Lillian

that’s such a good point. I like your thinking. I like your thinking. It’s just so interesting for people to say that like someone wearing secondhand leather is going to encourage people to buy brand new leather. And it’s like, I don’t I also agree, I don’t see that. And it’s like, and yet we’re not really criticizing. Like, I don’t know, it’s also like, I’m sorry, but how many people do you have following you on Instagram? What like 100 that you’re posting about your secondhand jacket? Like, right? Like, I don’t really see it, but it like if you’re like a celebrity if you’re Kim K, you know, posting on your Instagram page about your brand new leather outfit? Yeah, all those millions of people are gonna be like, I want to be like him, Kay, and go out and buy brand new leather. So yeah, I just, I could see that with like a celebrity promoting something. It’s like you with that kind of platform. You do want to be more careful about what you say, because millions of people are listening and watching. But no, I mean, you wear a secondhand leather jacket. It already existed, it was gonna go in the trash if nobody bought it. And yeah, you’re walking down the street. And so it says, Oh my gosh, I love your jacket. You know, thank you. It’s secondhand. You can get them for so inexpensive that way. So by us wearing secondhand clothes, and as having secondhand home decor. And you spread the word, you spread the message. I got that secondhand. Totally. Yeah, I love this. I love this secondhand shop. You know, I love this local thrift store. Full of you really want to get into check secondhand shopping, you know, we should go to some estate sales in the weekends together. But yeah, spreading that word, because we do all have these little bitty platforms, little bitty communities. And yeah, that way we spread the word enough, and it becomes a bigger movement. But yeah, it’s interesting how sometimes we want to take the what seems like the easy answer. What seems like the less complicated thing is Yeah, being in leather vegan, I’m told vegan is good, and leather is bad. And then yeah, you’re not really knowing about the process that goes into making it, you know, the carbon emissions, the water, you know, all that kind of stuff going into making it. But having a conversation about secondhand leather can get complicated. And so yeah, it’s sometimes easier to take the easy way out, instead of thinking through like, Oh, this is actually not what I thought it was.

Amanda

Right? Right. And unfortunately, that’s like where we are like, there’s no easy answers. Yeah, and, and we need to do our own due diligence on every decision we make.

Lillian

Yeah, I had this thought the other day, and I was like, what I was like, this is a wild thought. But what if we took responsibility for what we were bringing into our homes, like we took responsibility for our pets, you know, we thought, put more thought into what we were buying, you know, not just buying stuff because it’s on sale, or because we’re told it’s popular because it’s trendy, taking more responsibility for what we’re buying. And once it’s in your home, we’re having to take personal responsibility. I think if we had to take personal responsibility for everything ended up people would bring a lot less into their homes. Throw totally, you know, not throw stuff out so easily. And yeah, we could solve a lot more problems that way if we took more personal responsibility, because it’s just so easy to unload it off at Goodwill, just throw things away, because we’re running out of time. But yeah, what if we had to take personal responsibility for everything we bought and brought into our homes?

Amanda

I mean, I love that. Right now. It’s just too easy to be out of sight out of mind. Yes, yes. Yes. I’ve gotten used to that. I remember when we first moved to Portland years ago, and like, instead of living in an apartment building where we could put stuff in a dumpster now we have like one little tiny trash can and it was tiny. Yeah. And like, I think they only took our trash every other week. And so, like, hugely stressful thing. To minimize our trash. Yeah, way. And honestly, it like, pushed us into a lot of new habits that have stuck with us since then, you know, and imagine if we had taken it to the next level. And not only did we were we limited to this like one bag of trash every two weeks, but then we had to take it to the landfill ourselves. Yeah, that would be majorly impactful, right. Or when you’re like, you know trying to rehome your Staff instead of jumping in at the Goodwill, imagine if you’ve literally had to, like, meet each person face to face who was going to take it. Like that would have an impact on you as well. I mean, I’ll tell you, one of the best ways to get to really understand the full scope of what you own and have brought into your home is to move. Oh, yes. Yeah, right. I mean, like, when we moved from Pennsylvania to Austin, I was like, I’m ready to go. No possession. Yeah, future we just like, that’ll make you go medalist real fast. Yeah, yeah. And I think that, like, we just don’t have enough opportunities where we’re confronted by the impact of our stuff.

Lillian

No, I agree. Because it’s so interesting. And like 100 years, you know, we went from if you needed something, you figured it out yourself. You know, if you needed milk, you were milking a cow. If you needed some wall art for your wall, you made it right at yourself. Your clothes, yeah, if you needed clothes, you made them. Because, you know, trips to the quote, unquote, you know, local store were infrequent and not easily accessible. And sometimes above your means. And so you just had to figure it out. And now we’re in the completely opposite space where everything is so convenient. And we don’t have to see or think at all about the process behind how something got to us, then it makes it so easy to get rid of it. You know, you had to make any art yourself. So if you were going to make it you were going to pick something you definitely liked. You would definitely going to keep you know, it’s getting passed down through your family. And today, I mean, there’s like a million different ways to buy Walmart, and then your style changes and use get rid of all of it. Oh, totally. You know,

Amanda

there’s so much recent Wall Art at every thrift stores. Oh,

Lillian

so much so much because people go through phases in their decorating. And I’m a big decorator, I’m a maximalist and there’s stuff everywhere.

Amanda

Definitely a maximalist are totally

Lillian

get like wanting to decorate a lot. And kind of wanting to change things up. And so I will admit, I was that person, you know, I just like got rid of stuff when I was tired of it. You know, I picked up stuff with because it was cute in the moment or an expensive and I didn’t really think about how long it was going to be in my home. And so it’s just like, like you were saying, and a shift in thinking a shift in how we’re framing things. And so now, you know, I still buy home decor, but it’s because I know, it’s not replacing something else, you know, I want to add it to what’s going on in my home. And if I need to decorate so badly, you know, I rearrange stuff, I come up with a new, you know, new places to have things new theme in the bathroom, you know, you change it up and put stuff away in storage. And then you bring that stuff back out when you’re tired again, you’re like, Oh, I didn’t even remember I had this. This is cool. You know how to back up. But yeah, it’s just so easy for things to be first to throw things away. And we don’t think about where away is or, you know, doesn’t stop existing. It just goes somewhere else. But you don’t have to think about that.

Amanda

Right? Right. It’s too easy. It’s Tuesday. And I think it’s time for us to like kind of hit the pause button and really think about it. It takes effort. Sure. But like, making change takes effort.

Lillian

Yes. Yeah, that’s such a good statement.

Amanda

i It’s like something I have to remind myself all the time, because I’d be like, Why is everything so hard? Yes. About things. But like, that’s the answer. Unfortunately, we got to think about it. And we gotta like slow down and do the do the work to like, reflect. Yeah, it has. Because we don’t have to drive our stuff to the landfill and dispose of it there. Personally, we need to mentally drive it to the landfill. Yeah, feels like

Lillian

yeah, really take stock. And again, you know, it’s so easy to donate stuff to thrift stores. But how much of that ends up in the trash? You know, you’re talking about your daughter working there. So little ends up on the shelves, but again, in your mind, you know, you donated it to the the thrift store and they’re gonna figure out what needs to happen. And they don’t Yeah, exactly. We think they will. But that’s not actually what they agreed to.

Amanda

Right, right. It’s like when you’re a kid and you’re like, Well, my parents will figure everything out.

Lillian

Oh, my gosh, those were the days. Those were the

Amanda

whalers that they weren’t figuring it out either.

Lillian

Yeah, spoiler they nobody knows what they’re doing. But like they did when we were little kids.

Amanda

Well, this has been said Such a fun conversation. Oh, yeah, it

Lillian

flew by?

Amanda

I know it really did. I just want to know, is there like any other like, parting words of wisdom or like just one final thought you want everybody it’s up when they think of you to think of no pressure, no pressure

Lillian

at all, no pressure. Um, but yeah, I think, um, something that really sticks with me is thinking secondhand first. So, yes, thrifting is my job. You know, buying secondhand is my job. So I’m around it all the time. So it’s really convenient for me, you know, to pick up items for my home. But just instead of, you know, your first thought being getting online and adding something to your cart to Amazon, stopping in target. And just having that be your one stop for the day. If you can try to start thinking secondhand first. And that can be you know, Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, that can be Poshmark. That can be Instagram. That can be your physical, local thrift stores. But yeah, just having that be your first instinct to go one place secondhand. And even if you find just a couple of things you needed for your home, or a couple of things you needed for your kids school project. You know, those are things that you didn’t buy new. Those are things that you saved off of the shelves. Very possibly something that wasn’t going to get purchased was going to end up in the trash. And so I think that’s what I want to impart because it can seem intimidating, especially for people who like mostly shop secondhand, it’s like, oh, how do you get to that point? And I was like, we’re not trying to get every single person to that point. But if we could just get a lot more people to think secondhand first, could really change. It could really change how we operate.

Amanda

100% I love that. And I think, you know, it’s like baby steps. Maybe? Yes, start with like, I don’t buy any new kitchen stuff.

Lillian

Yeah, just one little change, you know, for this room in my house, or? Yeah, I’m gonna stop buying Walmart. Because I Yeah, and I don’t 100% shop secondhand, it’s very hard to get to 100% Sometimes you need something and you just can’t find it.

Amanda

Yeah, I mean, all you need it like fast. And yes, that happens sometimes. But sometimes what you think you need fast and easily, like blue drinking glasses or something? You actually have plenty of time.

Lillian

Yeah, it’s like you want it right now you want it right now. And it’s so right to have that need fulfilled? Yeah, just like take a take a beat? Do you really need this right away? Is it something that you could try to go secondhand first, and again, that’s why resellers are here. If you don’t have that time, and energy to put into shopping secondhand, you know, we’re here to make it easier for you and more convenient for you. Only so yeah, utilizing us as well. To do your secondhand bidding.

Amanda

It’s true. It’s true, like reach out to your favorite secondhand sellers and be like I’m looking for this thing because we would love it probably gonna find it a lot sooner than you are like, it’s it’s like I said nothing delays finding something. thrifting more than wanting it. Yeah.

Lillian

Don’t read it out there. Don’t say it out loud. Don’t think about it. We’ll find it.

Amanda

It’s true. Like I feel like a lot of us who are really into secondhand shopping have a lot of superstitions around it. Like for my husband, it’s like you can’t get a cart when you first walk in.

Lillian

Oh, interesting. I’m like, that would drive me crazy. It’s terrible.

Amanda

I’m like just meeting. Now I’m carrying like 17 books. No, I believe exact to superstition and mind is like, I can’t say out loud what I’m looking for. Yeah, I have to I can have it in my phone on a list. But like, I can’t be like today I’m looking for some potholders and a casserole and dining chair or something. I mean, no, things are always gonna be harder to find. But like, I gotta say, one of my favorite chairs I got at the bins for $1.99

Lillian

Yes, that’s what I love to hear.

Amanda

I doubt I know. Like it looked like no one had ever sat on it.

Lillian

Ah, that happens because yeah, I think that’s another myth is that secondhand means used?

Amanda

No. And that’s just proof of like, how little we use some of our I don’t know, right? I

Lillian

mean, you’ll find stuff from the 70s that’s still in the box.

Amanda

Totally. I have found so many amazing kitchen items that way that we’re like still in the box never used or man furniture that like our couch we got at a thrift store in Pennsylvania right before we moved. Oh, it was about $200 It’s green velvet. I know but had ever been on that couch before. Velvet you would have known to right? Yeah, some saying like, people think that secondhand means dirty write less than nice, like subpar and none of that is true at all. And seriously, the amount of a brand new inbox with price tags, stuff I see whether it’s shoes, clothes, books, you name it. So much of it. So much of it so

Lillian

much.

Amanda

Well, thank you so much, Liliana. Thank you. I’m glad to have you back again because I feel like 10 hours more.

Lillian

Yeah, this was really fun. And I love the conversations that you have with clotheshorse. So I would be honored

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Thank you again to Lillian for spending a few hours with me. You know, what you hear right here in this recording is just one small part of the time that both the guests and I put into each episode. We have a pre-recording call where we’ll talk for an hour or two. I listen to the guest’s stories and create an outline of the conversation we’re going to have when it’s time to have the recording session. And a lot of guests put in extra time researching, organizing their thoughts, even writing out their ideas so they have them pulled together when we record. I’m so appreciative, so grateful for the work that every guest puts into Clotheshorse. I think Lillian and I could record like three more episodes together, so I’ll be sure to get her to come back again. In the meantime, go give Lillian a follow on instagram @retrocoloradogoods and @resellersocial

Before I tell you to leave a rating or review on apple podcasts and thank Dustin for the music and audio support, I want to leave you with one last round of thoughts…

Let’s go back to those pillars I broke down at the top of this episode.

Progress not perfection.

The personal is political.

Slow fashion is for everyone.

Small business is the future.

Secondhand first.

Collaboration over competition.

All of these are a roadmap to a destination. And that destination is collective action leading to change. It is bringing as many people as possible along on that journey. It is sharing our experiences and knowledge with others so that they can benefit from what we’ve learned, too. It is supporting one another on the journey.

A few months ago, I put together a post on instagram dispelling the myths around secondhand sellers and shoppers, basically the myths that Lillian and I discussed earlier. One sentence, well, it’s really a question from those slides resonated with so many members of our community:

“Why do we tend to turn on one another, rather than the larger systems and societal norms that are truly responsible? “

For years now, I’ve been seeing a lot of conversation by both professional political pundits and people on reddit around the liberal left eating itself, destroying one another, being more divisive rather than working together toward a common purpose. And while I will admit that yes, I definitely see that happening very often, where I REALLY see it happening is in the space of the sustainability and slow fashion movement. I see people being shamed for buying fast fashion, rather than asking WHY they are doing it and helping them move away from it. We can’t assume that people don’t want to do better. We should never assume that people don’t care about the planet and its people. Because most people ARE good and they DO care. Sometimes they just need a hand to get there. But what I see is judgment rather than education. Shame rather than support. I see us beating ourselves up for not achieving perfection, rather than applauding our own progress. Ask me about the time last year when our well pump was broken for three days and we had to buy plastic containers of water. I was beating myself up over it until Dustin said, “We will die without water.” As I’ve said many times before, doing the right thing–especially when it comes to sustainability–is rarely black and white. The answer often lies in that nebulous gray space. In an ideal world, our well pump would have been replaced the same day. Or we could have driven somewhere that offered water in refillable containers. Or a neighbor could have shared water with us without risking drying out their well, too. But we did the best we could. We bought a few plastic jugs of water and drove to a somewhat nearby spring that had potable water and we refilled them. But we had the privilege of access to that water. Most people do not. We are not set up for success when it comes to easy decisions around sustainability.

Somehow secondhand shopping and reselling became one of the most divisive topics within the sustainability community. And that makes me sad because ultimately working class people are turning on working class people, rather than uniting to take on the retailers and brands whose business models depend on waste and exploitation. Imagine if we all worked together against THEM, rather than against one another?

Ultimately this conversation uncovers our tendency to blame individuals (ie, resellers and new secondhand shoppers) for a larger problem, rather than the systems (fast fashion, consumerism, and capitalism) that are actually at the heart of all of these problems, whether it’s rising thrift store prices or the decline in quality of the clothing and items in these thrift stores. Resellers and secondhand shoppers are responsible for neither of these problems.

Rather than being angry at resellers, be glad that they are saving clothes from the landfill. Furthermore, they provide a service: easy access to a curated assortment of secondhand clothing that is clean, repaired, and ready to wear. This might seem like a minor thing, but for many, thrifting/secondhand shopping is just not that accessible due to time required to do it, the access to thrift stores, and materials/equipment/skills required to clean and mend clothing. All of this requires work, time, and skill…so yes, we SHOULD be paying resellers more than the thrift store was charging for any item. Are there unethical resellers out there? Sure, unethical people exist in every industry and community. That doesn’t mean we should be broadly vilifying resellers.

Rather than being angry at new secondhand shoppers, be glad that they are making a more sustainable choice. We need EVERYONE onboard the #secondhandfirst train if we’re going to have impact.

All of these people…they are part of OUR COMMUNITY. They are on the same team as us. Fighting them is fighting ourselves, and that’s the enemy of progress right there. Collaboration over competition, my friends…and that even applies to finding the “good stuff” at the thrift store.