In this episode:
- We’re going to break down what brand and branding mean, using fizzy water and boxed macaroni and cheese as examples
- We will walk through the history of “brands” and “branding” leading up to this century, where it evolves from a little brand on a jug to full-on marketing teams and brand theory
- Why it’s so wild that food brands got obsessed with masked taste tests in the 70s and 80s
- How Amanda teaches brand and branding to her small business clients and students (and why that matters for them)
- And Amanda will shares some brands that aren’t really who you think they are any more (or maybe never were)
“Meet the Man Who Made a Fortune Bringing Brands Back to Life,“ Suzanne Kapner, The Wall Street Journal.
Authentic Brands Group brand portfolio
Levi Strauss & Co. Enters into Definitive Agreement to Sell Dockers to Authentic Brands Group
“JCPenney Joins SPARC to Form Catalyst Brands,” David Moin, WWD.
Catalyst Brands
“Shein signs deal with Forever 21 owner as fast-fashion majors look to boost reach,” Arriana McLymore, Reuters.
Learn more about the San Pedro Apparel Mart in episode 231 of Clotheshorse!
10/23 Seattle, WA @ Here-After
10/26 Portland, OR @ Holocene
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Transcript
There are many days (especially this year) when I feel so hopeless and overwhelmed. I find myself asking the closest cat, “Are these the darkest days in human history?”
And then I’m reminded, that no, in fact, these are NOT the darkest days in human history, not just because I have read The People’s History of the United States and Sophie’s Choice, but also because I lived through the 00s.
If you remember the 00s as a halcyon time of Littlest Pet Shop and Hannah Montana…well, I’m older than you. And I was a young adult in the 00s. It was rampant with post 911 islamophobia and quasi-patriotism (primarily as an excuse to be racist). Another war in the middle east that was started under extremely false pretenses. In Portland, we were protesting that war almost every week, earning the nickname “Little Beirut” from either George W. Bush or a member of his staff (depending who you ask). For the next decade, the city would be dogged by lawsuits from protesters who were victims of police brutality. I myself was pushed to the ground by a cop while walking at the edge of a protest with a very young Dylan on my back.
Yes, I was a single parent in Portland, Oregon, pre-Portlandia (the show, not the sculpture above the entrance of the Portland Building). Decades of false propaganda involving “welfare queens” meant that not only was it damned near impossible to get any kind of food or financial assistance from the government, but everywhere I went, strangers were sure to ask me “just how old were you when you had your child? And where is her father?” Of course, this is when i learned an important life lesson for dealing with trolls IRL: MAKE IT AWKWARD. And I always responded “I was 23. And her father died quite suddenly before she was born.” Do you ever wish you could just jam something gross into the gaping mouth of a very surprised troll?
Also: I’m here to tell you that being anything other than a white cisgendered dude with a trust fund was also pretty shitty in the aughts. I felt like i was constantly protecting my vagina from unwelcome visitors. Dudes assured me I would be “hotter” if I could just get a little smaller than my size 27 jeans. And really, white guys could kinda say the most racist, sexist shit….and somehow it was okay because it was “ironic.”
So yeah, the 00s were not some era of good and easy times. To be honest–yes, I’m terrified of what’s happening in the world right now–but I also remind myself that the 00s were a nightmare and we came out of it…and things seemed better for a while. Not perfect, but better…with a feeling that things could get closer to perfect. We can get there again, and make it last longer.
But that’s not what this episode is about…so let’s get to that, okay? So here’s another thing I was doing the 00s: working at the Urban Outfitters store on NW 23rd in Portland, OR. If you shopped there, I probably was working there. A few episodes ago, in the Content Queen episode, we talked briefly about the Urban Outfitters interview process: group interviews and the weird “personality test” that all potential hires had to pass in order to get hired. That was nothing unusual for retail. I remember my friend Alana took an even weirder, longer version of that “personality test” for a job at Nordstrom. She said it was full of strange double negatives and complex language that seemed designed to catch her in a lie. Like “Most people would not say that I’m never not dishonest.” What? And for the most part, these tests are just looking to see if there is any chance you might steal from the company.
But the entire employment process began with the same paper application that the company used for more than a decade. The front side was the basics: your name, address, previous jobs, education. Standard. About half of the backside was taken up by an agreement where you basically signed away your rights as an employee…before you were even hired. There was a space for personal references.
And then a few questions like “What do you do for fun? What kind of music do you like? What are your favorite brands?”
These questions seemed innocent enough…but they were really kind of the most important part of the application because they determined if you were “on brand” or as they like to say now “a cultural fit” for the job. The translation: were you cool and cute enough to work at Urban Outfitters.
Now over the years, I think (okay, maybe I hope) that we as a society have recognized that terms like “on brand” and “cultural fit” are often just dripping with sexism, racism, classism, ageism, fatphobia…all the bad -isms and -phobias. But back then, remember, it was the 00s and somehow it was totally fine and chill for companies to be all of those things…and it was especially acceptable in the hipster culture of that era. And Urban Outfitters was generally portraying itself as a THE hipster store…nevermind that it was part of a large chain, that its CEO and founder was a rich old white guy who loved to donate money to Republicans, and it was essentially selling low quality stuff at high prices (thanks to that image of being THE hipster store).
But back to those applications…there was always a stack in one of those plastic desk trays in the managers office. And all of us managers were constantly thumbing through them because the turnover at Urban Outfitters (a mostly miserable place to work) was very high. And we made a lot of decisions based on the answers to those questions on the backside of the application.
Music was obviously very important.
We were looking for “cool” taste in music. If you answered Britney Spears or N Sync, your application was cast aside.
For the “what do you do for fun?” section, we were looking for similarly cool answers, like make art, go thrifting, write poetry, go to shows, play in a band. Basically anyone who mentioned sports in their answer was also cast aside.
And then the favorite brands? Okay, I’m just going to tell you that if you applied to work at Urban Outfitters in the early 2000s and you answered “Lux or BDG” to that question…you were out of the running. Sorry, but we assumed you were a super uncool kiss ass, too foolish to recognize that neither Lux nor BDG were real brands, they were just the names on the labels in some of the clothes we sold. Lux was often found in the infamous “amazing butt flattening jeans” we sold (along with most of the women’s clothing) and BDG was the brand of the even more infamous “ass blow out jeans,” which would often, well, blow out in the ass if someone dared to walk up a set of stairs. And btw, you were also instantly denied a job if you answered “Von Dutch.” Sorry, I don’t make the rules! But we would have accepted Paul Frank or Marc Jacobs as “cool” answers.
Anyway…the irony of Lux and BDG is that while those names were sewn into clothing for years and years, Urban Outfitters didn’t own the rights to them. They hadn’t trademarked the brands. So random stuff with Lux labels kept showing up at TJ Maxx and Ross. In the early 2010s (when I was a buyer for the company), Urban finally gave up on trademarking them (it was just too late), and rolled out a whole new stable of officially trademarked brand names:
- Kimchi Blue: for our more feminine customer, lots of florals and lace, soft colors
- Silence + Noise: our edgy fashion girl brand
- Ecote: the boho brand. We also used Staring at Stars for boho accessories and intimates
- Cooperative: a more preppy aesthetic, with lots of navy, white, and red stripes
The company fleshed out these “brands” (even though they were just exclusive to Urban Outfitters) via color palettes, customer profiles, logos, signage, and inspiration lookbooks. As I planned out my assortment as a buyer, I would choose which brand an item might be and solidify it by choosing colors from the palettes assigned for that brand for that season. In stores, these brands were merchandised separately, conveying entire fashion trends. The women’s sales floor of each store was always broken out into 3-4 zones. And one brand would occupy each one, with all of the colors complementing one another.
This went on for years (with similar brands being developed for the men’s department), until sometime in the late 2010s, when the company made the decision that everything should just have an Urban Outfitters brand label, in hopes of making Urban an internationally recognized brand with the same power and prestige as say, Chanel or Nike.
For all of us working behind the scenes, these brand names were nothing more than a label that we chose. None of us were like “I’m a real Kimchi Blue gal” or “I’m Ecote all the way.” But to our customers they were very real brands, with very real lifestyles and identities attached to them, entirely created by a bunch of people in an office in Philadelphia.
Yet, while these names were just a cell I populated on a spreadsheet to me, I knew they did something. They created something. They added value to something. They allowed us to charge more for low quality stuff. And so I was shocked at future jobs like Nasty Gal and Modcloth when we would buy stuff from the San Pedro Apparel Mart fast fashion showrooms with brand labels like “Hot + Delicious” and “Cotton Candy.” Like, where were the vibes? What exactly is the customer lifestyle for “Hot + Delicious?” Does she love stews and soups? Is she the person at coffee shops always asking for an extra hot latte?
Btw if you want to learn more about what I mean about the San Pedro Apparel Mart, I’ll share an episode in the show notes that goes into it more!
I knew that if we could have replaced the “Hot + Delicious” label with something that said “Nasty Gal” or perhaps a new Nasty Gal brand a la what we did at Urban Outfitters, we could have increased the retail price by $10, $20, maybe even $30. It really broke my brain that we weren’t doing that…even though it would have slowed down the process of buying, receiving, and selling merchandise (never an option in fast fashion).
You see, I knew the power of brands. Of good branding. Of building a loyal following of customers who would buy just about anything you sold them, at just about any price…just because of the brand name on the label and hangtag.
In the social media era, brands encouraged parasocial relationships with their customers, pretending that they were friends with them. They sold ideas of a brand voice, a lifestyle and sometimes, some kind of “mission” that the brand was on. Cult brands were created…and eventually cult brands kinda died off, only to be replaced with another.
People described their personalities via brands, whether that was Anthropologie (you can envision that person, right), Glossier, or even Supreme.
And guess what? That was by design!
Over the past few years making Clotheshorse, I have often wondered: why are Anthropologie mega fans the meanest people on the internet? Why would someone call themselves a Maxxinista? Why do Free People customers think that they are shopping from a sustainable brand? Why do so many indie brands have Facebook groups and subreddits for fans? Why would someone start a fan account on instagram for Target? Why will people wait in line for hours to buy something from Supreme? Why will they buy a Glossier t-shirt? Or why will people go full scorched earth defending Nike or SHEIN?
I mean, I know the answer: brand and the loyalty/prestige that comes along with a well-defined brand image. It’s why people will spend more money for the same item. It’s why they’ll show up for every drop. It’s why they buy logo shirts and weird Glossier hot cocoa cups.
I have been wanting to do a series for years unpacking brands, the psychology of it all, and why really at the end of the day, we have to sort of break up with the idea that the name on the labels in our clothing mean anything about who we are as individuals. So this summer, in honor of five years of Clotheshorse, we’re going to be unpacking brands and how they make us feel. We have a lot to discuss, so let’s get started!
Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that once pitched “Fauxsace,” aka “extremely fake and tacky knockoff aesthetic” to one of my employers…and they turned it into an entire collection. I won’t say which one.
I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 239, part one in an ongoing series about brands and how they influence our identities and drive consumerism.
In preparation for this series I have read so many books about marketing, cults, and brands. I have watched documentaries about iconic brands (like American Apparel) and listened to podcasts about cults. And I have quite miserably read about a thousand marketing thinkpieces.
And wow, we are going to go on quite a journey with everything I have learned!
In this episode:
- We’re going to break down what brand and branding mean
- The history of “brands” and “branding” leading up to this century, where it evolves from a little brand on a burlap sack or jug to full on marketing teams and brand theory.
- Why food brands got obsessed with masked taste tests in the 70s and 80s
- How I teach brand and branding to my small business clients and students (and why that matters for them)
- And I will share some brands that aren’t really who you think they are any more (or maybe never were).
Over the next few episodes, we’ll explore
- How “emotional branding” and parasocial relationships with brands became THE way of marketing a business in this century
- Why brands started having mission statements and corporate accountability pages
- Why humans are so prone to finding identity with the brands they buy and wear
- The rise (and maybe disappearance) of generic brands
- Are luxury brands really….luxurious?
- Examples of brands who got it right…until they got it very wrong.
- We will also talk about indie brands who are doing a great job of being authentic and real brands (and why we should support them).
- And we’ll do a whole episode about Glossier as a case study in so-called “cult brands” and how the cult changes over time.
My goal in all of this is for all of us to realize that brands are not our friends, many brands are running off of vibes, and that it’s lowkey kinda stifling and maybe even damaging to build our identities around them. Plus: when you stop caring about brand names, you probably just start dressing for yourself and buying/wearing things you like. Which is always great for cutting down your consumerism!
I want you to be a part of it! So send me your stories about brands that you used to be obsessed with…and why you aren’t any more (or maybe you still are). A brand that disappointed you. Or a brand you LOVE now because of something they did or didn’t do. You can record these thoughts as a voice memo on your phone and send them to me. Or write an email. Please do not DM me on Instagram. Chances are I will miss it because my notifications are always blowing up there. My email address is always in the show notes. It’s [email protected]
Okay, before we jump into all of this, I would be remiss as a podcast host if I did not remind you that Clotheshorse is coming to the West Coast in October, and I’m doing two live shows:
🐴 Thursday, October 23, Seattle WA at Here-After
🐴 Sunday, October 26, Portland, OR at Holocene
Tickets are on sale and a limited number are available, so get them now!
Both venues have told me that tickets are selling very fast and will most likely sell out as we get closer to the day of the show, so don’t procrastinate! Links are in the show notes and at clotheshorsepodcast.com
As you know, I have always loved when someone in school started their book report or presentation with a dictionary definition, so let’s do that now.
First up: the word “brand.”
According to the American Marketing Association, “A brand is a name, term, design, symbol, or any other feature that identifies one seller’s good or service as distinct from those of other sellers”
And while some of this is straightforward in terms of logos, symbols (like the NIke Swoosh or the Apple..apple), it’s also about the image and well, vibes that a company is putting out there.
But brand is the idea or image people have in mind when they think of a specific company, product, or service.
And this is the moment when I tell you that we are going to talk a lot about fizzy water/sparkling water/spicy water…whatever you call it…for the next few minutes. Why? Because fizzy water is a GREAT way to understand the impact of brand and branding because essentially the ingredients of every can are the same, no matter what the logo on the can is. Water, carbonation, and flavoring.
So, as I said earlier, brand is the idea or image people have in mind when they think of a specific company, product, or service.
This can be both practical and concrete . “LaCroix is flavored fizzy water”AND more of an image “LaCroix is cooler than Bubly because it has better art design and it’s the original flavored fizzy water.”
And yes, the quality of the product or service a company offers is important, but customers will originally gravitate towards the image. In theory, they will come back again because of the quality. That hasn’t always been the case, particularly in this century as social media and advances in marketing “theory” have allowed brands to hold on to customers without backing it up with good quality and service.
When I am teaching the concept of brand to small business students, I always pull up a slide of canned fizzy waters from a variety of brands. And I ask them
- Which brand do you associate with value?
- Which do you associate with coolness?
- Higher quality?
- More exciting flavors?
- Which one do you buy most often? Why?
And this always turns into a fun (and eye opening) conversation, because all of us fizzy water drinkers have brand loyalty. There are ones that we perceive as “fancier” and we only buy when they are on sale. There are house brands that we buy because they are cheap. There are some that we skip because we know who their parent company is. But no matter what, all of the cans on that slide contain the same ingredients.
Here are some examples of how we talk about them:
- LaCroix: the “original” flavored sparkling water, has vintage branding. Mid price point.
- Bubly: More “millennial” branding and name. Fairly basic flavors, Mid price point. Because it’s from Coca Cola, people trust the brand…or DON’T trust the brand.
- Soleil: the house brand for Safeway and Vons. Pretty basic branding that speaks to VALUE, lowest price point, designed to sell in high volume.
- Good & Gather: A value brand (Target house brand), but because it’s Target (and has to appear more elevated), it has exotic flavors and more design-y branding.
- Waterloo: higher price point, more vintage-inspired branding, more flavors that seem “natural.” We always identify this as a “splurge” or luxury, along with other more “premium” sparkling water brands like Nixie.
Once again, these are just cans filled with sparkling water. But each can looks different, occupies a different shelf in the store, and conveys a different lifestyle/value to customers…and that’s all by design…because it’s the result of branding. So what is branding?
Branding Journal defines it as, “ the process of giving a meaning to a specific organization, company, products or services by creating and shaping a brand in consumers’ minds.”
- Breaking this into regular person talk: Branding is the full package of identity that communicates the brand, brings customers on board, and develops brand loyalty.
- Branding creates emotion and a sense of belonging/community. It’s no longer just a product, it’s a lifestyle and community. It’s what motivates you to pay $6 for a 12 pack of sparkling water instead of getting 24 cans for $2. To wear that brand’s logo on your body. I mean, (speaking of sparkling water), people have gotten Liquid Death tattoos!
- Great example of two brands with very different branding: Skechers and Adidas.
P.S. I also like my students to do the same exercise we just did with sparkling water with boxed macaroni and cheese…because there is a similar hierarchy of brands.
And branding plays a role in everything we buy or just want to buy. Companies with a strong brand identity are thinking about it all:
- Packaging
- Logo and visual aesthetic
- Store and website merchandising
- Who it hires to work in its stores and offices
- Where it advertises
- The voice and content of social media posts
- The models a brand uses
- The sizes a brand chooses to make
- Where you can buy a brand
- The price of that brand’s line
- Who that brand collaborates with (other brands, influencers, celebrities)
- Product placement in shows and movies
- Any sort of “giveback” or social responsibility the brand promotes
The thing I always underscore with my students and clients is that big brands don’t just “let” these things happen…it’s all planned out and spelled out, often in a “brand bible,” that conveys voice, color, font, models, everything. And I encourage my students and clients to do the same.
In fact, even the experience of Clotheshorse is something that I planned out in advance. It’s all super authentic because it’s literally me and what I like/who I am as a person…but I decided early on what Clotheshorse would look and sound like to listeners and followers:
- The pink of it all: when I started Clotheshorse, most sustainability focused accounts/content were beige, olive, very earth toned…that’s not who I am. And since it had often made me feel like I didn’t have a place in the movement, I wanted to show others that they DID belong by taking a different graphic approach: pink, cute, fun, full of kittens.
- Next, I wanted the way I spoke and the overall voice of Clotheshorse to be casual, fun, and conversational…with occasional swearing. Why? Because a lot of the things we discuss here can be overwhelming, difficult to pronounce, or just really dark…so it’s important that it feels like a good, natural conversation. If I spoke like an NPR host (which yes, I can do…you haven’t seen me in full corporate buyer presentation mode), you might not want to hear what I have to say as much. And listen, every activist/creator in the sustainability space is taking a different approach. Some are belligerent and fight with people all day on the internet. Others are super formal and polished.
- Lastly, it was really important to me that Clotheshorse understood, advocated for, and spoke to the working class…aka people like me! Some creators in sustainability focus on luxury/a more financially aspirational lifestyle. Others are super fashion and brand focused. Others are focused on speaking to people within and around the fashion industry. I wanted to speak to regular weirdos like myself. People who love thrifting, animals, vintage cookbooks, and thinking a lot about what they wear. My view has always been that the working class far outnumbers the wealthy in this world and we can (and will) change the future of this planet with our collective strength and commitment to one another.
The advice I give all of my clients: you are a small business and your brand should reflect YOU and who you are, what matters to you, and how you want to impact the world around you.
And if you take that one step further, in the early days of the social media era, people started talking about one’s “personal brand,” Ie, how you portray yourself in social media. And yeah, lots of people still post with that in mind. That’s why so many pages are just a highlight reel of someone’s life. I say, go for it with the personal brand thing by taking it one step further and using your individual platform/realm of influence to advocate for things that matter to you and show people how and why you live your life the way you do.
Something I have been seeing come up more and more in the world of online political discourse is that these days, Americans vote based on vibes. And more than ever, that makes sense to me because we make most of our buying decisions based on vibes (thanks to brand marketing). Why wouldn’t we choose our elected representatives that way? In fact, spoiler: in next week’s episode we’re going to talk about the 2010 book Emotional Branding, which has become the “bible” for how brands market to us in the 21st century. I forced myself to read it at the beach because I know how to have a good time. And I kept turning to Dustin and saying “wow, this really is the paradigm for brand and getting people into your brand that we have used at every job I have had.” I felt as if I had already memorized that book without reading it. Anyway, in that book, the writer cites Obama’s first presidential campaign and its message of hope as one way brands could market themselves to customers without seeming as if they are selling anything. It’s so cynical and gross…but also…it’s all vibes, my friend.
So how did we get to the point we are at now, where different companies can sell us cans of flavored water at a variety of different prices…because of vibes?
Well the concept of brand and branding goes all the way back to the literal branding (ie burning a symbol into the skin/fur) of livestock and enslaved humans in ancient times. As farmers, makers, and traders realized that these symbols could convey the origin and quality of a commodity, they began to add these sort of “proto logos” to their products. For example, archaeologists and historians have found seals on ancient pottery around the world. They were also used on shipping containers of all varieties.
Some of the brands we know now originated in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries:
- The Bass Brewery began applying its iconic red triangle to casks of beer in the mid 1800s. In 1876, the red triangle became the first trademark registered by the British government.
- Twinings tea has been using the same logo since 1787!
In the late 1800s, manufacturers were starting to realize that giving their products a personality–ie, some branding–drove more sales. And as more and more products were mass produced during the Industrial Revolution, these manufacturers were finding that people were a little distrustful of things made in a factory, after buying them locally (or making stuff themselves) for literally all of human history up to that point.
That’s when the concept of brand and a brand persona became essential.
- In the 1870s, the Quaker Oats company began using the portrait of a Quaker man on its packaging in place of a logo. It was so successful in humanizing the brand that it’s still in use today!
- Pears’ Soap was kinda the pioneer in creating a brand, running campaigns in the late 1800s featuring trending sculptures and paintings of the time. It distributed penny size coins stamped with “Pears Soap.” It hired the first ever skin care influencer, British socialite Lillie Langtry to promote its soap. And in the early 1900s, they ran an annual “Miss Pears” competition, where parents could enter their children in a contest to win the highly coveted role of brand ambassador.
- Campbell’s soup solidified its iconic red and white packaging early on, while investing heavily in advertising from its first days in business.
In 1900, J Walter Thompson, published the first ever ad explaining trademark advertising (ie, logos) and it is widely considered the first explanation of brand management. He went on via his advertising agency to create some game changing campaigns that really changed the way companies marketed their products. For example, in 1915 JWT was hired to create a campaign for Lux soap. Lux was recommended as the best soap to use on woolen items. He recommended that the company lean into it, marketing it as an upscale laundry option for fine clothing and textiles. Rather than associating Lux with the drudgery of housework and laundry, customers would begin to see Lux as a status symbol: washing with Lux meant that you had a taste for the finer things in life, including fine garments and the soap especially created to wash them. It makes me think of the social media trope of taking “shelfies” of your skin care products. Yes, people know that you take care of your skin, but you really want them to know that you curated an assortment of fine (and aesthetically pleasing) products to do it.
So yeah, in the early 1900s, we see more and more companies adopting better packaging, slogans, mascots, and even jingles…and assigning budget for advertising. And in the 1940s, companies began to realize (thanks to examples like the Lux soap campaign) that customers were actually developing “relationships” with the brands they consumed regularly. Research into consumers’ thoughts, feelings, and behaviors became an essential part of any advertising and branding strategy. And they began to realize that consumers wanted to buy from brands with personalities that matched their own…or at least, matched who they aspired to be. To appropriately “match” their customers (or at least, their customers’ aspirational version of themselves), they began to heavily profile their customers: where they lived, how much money they had, how many kids they did or did not have, their life goals, how to gain their trust, etc. And in the digital era, that became even easier, with plenty of tech companies (hi, meta, hi, google) more than happy to sell our digital footprints and behaviors to them.
But back in the middle of the last century, brand management teams popped up at every big company, and the sort of “graduates” of those teams moved on to smaller companies to implement what they learned along the way…from packaging to advertising to pricing…and over time, to social media.
In the 1970s and 80s, companies in all industries were deep into their branding, from food to fossil fuels to tobacco to clothing. We see people beginning to embrace name brands in clothing (along with logos). By then, people were brand loyal in many aspects of their lives: insurance, cigarettes, cleaning products, soda, food…you name it. Some brands felt that maybe this brand loyalty was preventing consumers from trying THEIR brand. So began the era of “masked taste test” campaigns and commercials: essentially showing customers that with the brand label removed, they might discover that their usual brand wasn’t that great. Which is kinda…meta, right? I’m going to play two commercials of the 80s back to back for you.
The first is the Pepsi Challenge: a campaign that asserted Pepsi tasted better than Coca Cola in masked taste tests. The other is from Folgers–an instant coffee–and its long time “hidden camera” campaign where it would swap the regular coffee at a fine restaurant for its instant “Folgers Crystals.”
What I do find interesting about these commercials is they do raise the question “are we just buying things based on vibes, rather than what we actually prefer or will enjoy more?” Kind of a wild proposition from the advertising industry, whose entire job is vibes, but okay, I’ll take it. I do this to myself when I’m thrifting for clothing. I don’t let myself look at the brand label until I have messaged/tried something on and I know that I’m probably going to buy It (or even not buy it). Too many times I have spotted something I’ve loved, liked the fabric, etc…then read Old Navy or Chicos on the brand label, and put it back without trying it on. For no good reason other than VIBES!
The last thing I wanted to discuss in this episode is heritage brands. I’m sure that phrase unlocks some logos and brand names for you: Levi’s, Red Wing Shoes, Burberry, Pendleton, Coca Cola, Carharrt…basically brands that have been around for generations, with a strong legacy of quality and consistency. Our respect for them may be driven by nostalgia “Oh my dad always wore Pendleton shirts” or maybe we just know that they have accumulated a lot of good will over the years for staying authentic. We often have an emotional connection to them, or at least, respect for them.
The thing is…in the 21st century, the fast fashion-ification and the private equity of it all has changed who owns some of these heritage brands and how they work…even the quality of what they make and sell. And that kinda makes the brand goodwill, those “vibes” that they have accumulated over decades kinda..false, right?
In my recent episode with Ariel of Cobbleld Goods, we talked about how this is particularly evident in the world of footwear:
- Birkenstocks were a family owned business for more than a century (the family had been making shoes since the 1700s)…but they were bought by a private equity firm in 2021, and went public in 2023. And you know what? You can tell…the company now sells a ton of plastic shoes to big chains around the world. And it has made life a lot harder for the small shoe stores that carried the brand for generations.
- Doc Martens was bought by a private equity firm in 2013, then went public in 2021…and there once again, the market is oversaturated with trendier Docs styles and the quality has gone downhill substantially.
Which brings me to Authentic Brands Group. I’ve mentioned this company a few times in the past, in the SHEIN episodes and in my conversation with Ariel.
Currently Forever 21 is run by SPARC Group, a joint venture between Authentic Brands Group, Simon Property Group (big time mall slumlord), and….wait for it…SHEIN. Yes, SHEIN owns one third of SPARC Group, and in exchange, SPARC Group became a minority shareholder in SHEIN. This happened in 2023.
In 2025, SPARC Group merged with a company that I would consider a heritage brand here in the US: JC Penney. SPARC Group then rebranded as Catalyst Brands…and Catalyst Brands now owns and runs a few brands with legacies of different lengths:
- Aeropostale, founded in 1987
- Brooks Brothers, founded in 1818
- Eddie Bauer, founded in 1920
- Lucky Brand Jeans (1990)
- Nautica (1983)
- And of course JC Penney, founded in 1902
Which means…SHEIN is a partial owner of all of them. And many customers have complained of incredibly declining quality among the brands, Brooks Brothers and Eddie Bauer in particular. I guess if you’re boycotting SHEIN, then you should also be boycotting JC Penney, etc.
Authentic Brands Group–part owner of Catalyst Brands– owns the intellectual property of more than 50 brands at this point. Remember when I talked about intellectual property a few episodes ago? I explained to you that Michael’s had bought the intellectual property of Joann, including brand names and marketing assets. I cited other examples of this happening (like with Toys R Us). When a company like Authentic Brands Group buys the intellectual property of a brand, they aren’t interested in the inventory, real estate, or even employees of that company. They just want the brand’s reputation, the vibes it has accumulated over the years, and of course, the trademarks and customer list.
ABG is owned by billionaire Jamie Salter, a man who owns 12 houses. His company scoops up the intellectual property of bankrupt or struggling companies…then licenses it out to other manufacturers who get to make product with those brand labels, while paying royalties (a portion of sales) to ABG. One of the primary criticisms of ABG/Jamie Salter is NOT that he owns 12 houses (which is gross in case you wondered where I stand on the issue), is that because the cost of the licensing fees and royalties companies must pay to to license these brands is so high, it compromises the quality of the product sold to customers. If you listened to the re-release of episode 1 last week (or you have been following along), you know that companies will always cut product quality in order to maintain a profit margin. When you’re paying royalties for every unit you sell, you’re definitely cutting corners on fabric, sewing, trims…and you’re probably squeezing the factory, too.
And the list of ABG brands is massive, spanning so many aesthetics and generations:
- Billabong
- Juicy Couture
- Quiksilver
- Nine West
- Champion
- Izod
- Roxy
- Volcom
- Frye
- Sperry
- Hunter
- Airwalk
- Rockport
- Frederick’s of Hollywood
- Tretorn
- Dockers (this one in is in process right now)
- Reebok
- Sports Illustrated
When you hear this list (which is just the beginning), you can’t help but think…wow, most brand labels are kinda nonsense at this point. These brands aren’t being made by their original owners, the quality and price and even availability has changed….and if a brand is just intellectual property to be bought and traded…then why does it even matter? Do vibes overpower quality and consistency?
Or more appropriately: in the masked taste test of say, Aeropostale and SHEIN, could the customer tell any difference between the two? What about Juicy Couture and Forever 21? If all logos and labels were removed? Could today’s Frye boots trick an entire fancy restaurant full of well-heeled patrons?
And I want to be clear that while the examples I have given you have been specifically clothing and shoes, this phenomenon of companies being bought, sold, and harvested for the intellectual property can be found in every industry and product category.
That brings us to the end of this episode. And I want to give you some homework. In fact, I’m going to try to give you some homework at the end of each episode in this series. I want you to make a list of your favorite long running brands. It can be clothing, shoes, food, makeup, restaurants, you name it! Now look up who owns them now. Are you surprised? Does that change how you feel about them?
If you find something really interesting that really does change how you feel about a brand, send it my way. We can discuss it in the next episode.
One last thing: the release of the episodes in this series may be a bit chaotic because the rest of the summer is very hectic for Dustin and me. Next week I have an event in Philadelphia. The next weekend we have guests in from out of town (trying to convince Dustin’s bandmate to move to Lancaster). The following week I’m going to NYC for Shoppe Object (a trade show). Then it’s my birthday…and then Dustin goes on tour for two weeks. So stay patient, but also, keep an eye out for episodes on strange days of the week!