Episode 126: A Light Episode About Fashion + Style That’s Actually Pretty Deep (featuring Elizabeth Mollo)

Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that always thinks “this will be an easy, fun, light episode”…and then it turns into something way more intense!

I’m your host Amanda, and this is episode 126. Today we’re going to be pondering something super light: fashion as an art form and personal style as a personal creative expression. This episode is a whole journey! We’ll get started with personal style as a creative expression. And we’ll ask ourselves “did we ruin that with all of these dumb style ‘rules’ around age, gender, body shape, race, etc?” We’ll explore this via audio essays from three members of the Clotheshorse community: Taylor, Anna, and Gladys. I’m so excited for all of you to hear them. I’ll go ahead and say that yes, I’m super hormonal and emo today, but each of these brought a little lump to my throat and then tiny, blissful tears of joy.

After that–yes, I told you, this episode is a whole journey–we will be joined by my friend Elizabeth, who will tell us about all of the work and thought that goes into producing fashion shows. I thought this was an important conversation to have for two reasons: 1. Like all things related to fashion and style, fashion shows tend to be dismissed as foolish and “easy” to put together, when the reality is that they require a lot of hard work, critical thinking, and creativity. #2 reason for wanting all of you to hear this conversation is that ultimately, fashion shows remind us that at its heart, before fashion became synonymous with a cruel, destructive industry, it was (and remains) an artform.

See? So much for a light and easy episode!

So let’s get started with our audio essays from members of our community.

Earlier this year, I recorded a series of episodes with special guest Audrey about personal style. Go give those a listen! One thing we kept coming back to was these “rules” that whether we like it or not, have weaseled their ways deep into our brains…and it’s hard to get them out of there! I asked all of you to contribute your own experiences with style and these so-called rules.

I have so many thoughts and feelings about the three essays I’m about to share with you. Originally I was going to play one, share my reaction, repeat, repeat. But ultimately as I assembled them, I realized that I wanted you to hear them in this specific order, on their own. So we are going to listen to them now, with musical interludes in between from Dustin. I’ll be back at the end to share my thoughts! One last thing: these stories include a lot of conversation about our relationships with our bodies, so if that’s triggering for you, go ahead and skip them!

Hi Amanda. My name is Taylor and I’m a seller of secondhand clothing online. My shop is called the Sweet Honey Thrift Shop. And I sell cute vintage and modern clothes, mainly on Depop. But also anywhere I can sell them really. If anyone wants to find me, I’m @sweethoney_thriftshop on Instagram or @sweethoneythriftshop all one word on Depop. Well, your discussion with Audrey about these style rules, quote unquote, and how like lots of other rules that we follow. They are arbitrary. It really resonated with me and this kind of journey that I’ve been on with my personal style for really as long as I can remember. I loved clothing and style from a super young age, I would patiently await the limited to catalog and when I got it, I would circle everything I wanted and start planning outfits in my head. I love those shirts with the Velcro across the chest so that you could, you know spell out your own message on. Wow, what I would give to get my hands on one of those today. One super distinct style memory of mine is from second grade when after I begged and pleaded to my parents, they allowed me to dress myself for for school photo day. I still have this photo to this day, it’s actually on my Instagram, if you want to go see it at Sweet Honey underscore thrift shop. And I wore this black quarter sleeve top that had electric bright blue faux fur trim around the neckline and the sleeves. And I just remember feeling on that picture day like the baddest be in elementary school. Nobody on the playground could tell me anything that day. And really, you know, that little girl’s style ethos and her style values are still the same. I love expressive clothing that’s fun and unique. And that tells a story. I am mixed race, my dad is black and my mom is white. And until I was about eight years old, we lived in West Philadelphia as a family, our community was super diverse, and it was great. Then, around the time I was going into first grade, my parents moved our family to the suburbs of Philadelphia where the community and most of my peers were predominantly white. What happened then? Now in retrospect, I understand although at the time I didn’t really know what was going on, was this gradual understanding of mine that I was definitely somehow different that I and my family were not normal somehow, from countless comments from everyone, adults and children alike on my curly hair and my tan skin, to just noticing from spending more time with white friends and their families, how different my family looked and how different our holidays looked in the foods we ate and the traditions we followed. You know, just realizing and feeling like an other. So not like I was part of the big main group, you know, and so I became really shy and quiet and my clothing sense and my dress sense reflected that. I think it was all in an attempt to not stand out and to not draw any more intention to myself than what I already felt like I always received for just being who I am for being black and being not white in this predominantly white space. And this is not to say that I was dressing you know, in like muted tones or super modestly. That wasn’t the case it was more so that I just dressed the same way as everyone around me and I really sort of was following mainstream trends. When on the inside what I really wanted to do was wear you know, not clothing that was any better or, or worse than the mainstream style but just different. And then also, you know, around the end of middle school and into high school I definitely started to experiment with clothing that expressed my sensuality and my sexuality a little bit more. As those things were developing, you know within me like I definitely went through a phase in high school where I was wearing the ultra ultra padded push up bra even though I have no boobs at all. With tons of cleavage or I loved wearing like tight like you know, like the hard tail and solo pants that accentuated my butt and made it look really good.

I loved it. I loved celebrating my body III through clothing that accentuated it. And I don’t think I thought this post poetically or profoundly about it at the time, but looking back, that’s definitely what happened. And I think that was a cool time period for me. And when I entered into college, you know, I’m becoming more educated, I’m slowly seeing more of the world. And I think some of my true personal style did start to come back into play. Definitely, definitely not yet my fullest expression of what it could be. I was still dressing within the mainstream of style. But you know, at college, I made some incredible friends who I was always with, and I was always surrounded by I mean, we literally traveled in packs. And I also lived in New Orleans, where creativity and self expression are just highly, highly celebrated. And so I definitely think over the four years of college, especially towards the end, I was more in touch with my, you know, innermost stylee stuff, but I think I was still suffocating myself with this need to fit in as much as I could, I was still in a predominantly white crowd, and I still felt othered. But, you know, overall, looking back at that time, up until that point, I think that was when I was the most in touch with my authentic sense of style. But, you know, after college, I was no longer surrounded by this support network of friends all the time, and this big social scene and this unique utopia, that was New Orleans, I entered the world, quite literally, because I spent a really big chunk of time traveling and living abroad, but also figuratively, as many of us do around that age, you know, just entering into adulthood, quote, unquote, adulting, or whatever, well in my adulting. Now, on top of the attention I got that I never really ever stopped getting for being half black for being racially ambiguous. I also now I’m trying to avoid this male gaze that I’m feeling constantly, which I definitely felt in college, but I also always had this like big squad of girlfriends having my back and we all had each other’s backs. And, but then when you’re on your own, you know, that sort of male attention and the male gaze, especially when you’re wearing outfits, where you do look sexy, you know, or traditionally feminine, it was just overwhelming to me, and I felt unsafe a lot. And I started to dress down, also to avoid that. So I’m still just kind of doing a lot to blend in and not stand out. And again, it’s not to say that I was like, not involved in style and fashion. I certainly certainly was. And I’ve always presented myself well and dressed nicely. And you know, been, you know, hip and cool, despite how not hip and cool saying hip and cool makes me sound. It was again, just not my truest expression of self and a style, but I still looked good. It just wasn’t authentic, or as authentic as it could be. Well, now I moved back to the US about a year ago, and I found Depop when I got back and opening my shop has been, quite literally a dream come true. I am in love with Depop and the community of style lovers on there. And it’s just this beautiful, beautiful space where for the first time I think probably ever in my life, I feel like my personal and true truest style style is being embraced. And not just by one person, but by a bunch of people. And so I just having a blast selling, you know, sexy vintage lingerie and cool y2k party tops, and, you know, 90 sweaters that have huge faux fur trim, I’m selling my dream clothes. And each time I sell a more sort of eclectic or out there item to a customer, I’m overjoyed for them that they will actually be wearing it. This piece that I would have sitting in my closet, and never wear because not because I don’t like it. But because I would never feel comfortable or confident enough to rock it.

And, you know, I don’t want to feel like that anymore. And I don’t want anyone else to feel like that either. I still don’t think I’m dressing. In my dream way I sell these clothes online. And that’s my outlet for style. But when I’m going out myself, I’m not expressing myself in this bold way. And I’m still dressing down to avoid this unwanted attention. But writing this and sharing it here is been super cathartic for me already I can feel that helping me get closer towards you know, a day where I’m actually dressing you know, in a way that makes me feel feel fulfilled and excited, because there’s no feeling quite like that feeling of wearing an outfit that lights your heart on fire and makes you feel fabulous just like I did in that blue for a trim top and second grade. It’s a prayer At unbelievable feeling and I want to feel that way more often. I want all of us to feel that way more often. So, thank you so much for having me on here. And again you can find me at @sweethoney_thriftshop on Instagram or @sweethoneythriftshop one word on Depop. I really appreciate you Amanda and the entire Clotheshorse community for just making and being a space where I feel welcomed and understood. Bye!

Hello, my name is Anna. I’m a very longtime listener. And I may or may not have appeared on this podcast before. I heard that one rule about a no miniskirts after 30. But that’s not the one that bothers me. It’s the crop tops that bothers me the most. A little proof story. At the end of my pregnancy at the age of 24, I got a bunch of very thick purple, red stretch marks all over my stomach. Like just a few days before that, there was nothing on my stomach. And then suddenly I looked like I have been attacked by links or something. Before I ever formed my own opinion about it, a member of my family who happened to see my stomach said, Oh, wow, no more to be swimsuits for you, girl. Something like that. I don’t really remember anymore. I didn’t even get offended back then. But my brain interpreted this one opinion of one person as an absolute truth and a rule that cannot be ever broken. It surely didn’t help either that I never saw stomachs like mine in any clothes, ads or any anywhere else really online or offline. So I’m sad to say but my son hasn’t seen daylight for 10 years. But then last year, I somehow ended up on the Instagram profile of the British swimsuit company, you swim that has incredibly diverse models. And therefore the first time I saw somebody who looked like me wearing a two piece swimsuit, and even this one source somehow completely changed my mind. I just didn’t feel like that was something to hide anymore. I suddenly realized this is something I can wear. But what about crop tops? You see I have never actually worn crop tops, even though I liked them a lot. Because before my pregnancy, like pretty early, I was too young and kind of shy. I don’t know. I didn’t really feel like doing it. And now I’m over 30 And I feel like I’m perhaps too old and also maybe not slim enough. I don’t know. I’m not even sure why I think that’s probably because I never see crop tops in the media being worn by people my age or size. This is the scariest part. I’m clearly brainwashed and can’t even point out by whom. I think the snow miniskirts and crop tops after 30 rules is somehow some sort of collective hallucination phenomenon. I don’t know. Anyway, last summer, I actually work cropped up a couple of times. The skies didn’t fall I felt good and comfortable. And it’s it was fun. So this upcoming summer I’m definitely embracing it further. I actually sued a few pretty cute crop tops myself, so now there is no excuse. I also got a beautiful tattoo on my stomach of a Morph not to cover the imperfections and placement is such that you can still see all of my stretch marks I just thought it would be a good addition to my tattoo collection. So yeah, planning on rocking crop tops during summer 2022 And hope to see more of mid size plus size 30 plus 40 plus 70 plus people out there rocking crop tops and miniskirts as well. Okay, thank you. Bye!

Hi, I’m Gladys Strickland. I live in Daytona Beach, Florida and I am 58 years old. One advantage to having been around a few additional years is realizing that many style rules and expectations are nothing more than bullshit. I heard so many style rules through the years. Don’t wear white after Labor Day. You must have a new spring dress for Easter and you wear it even if a cold front comes through and the temperature is freezing. Skirts are shorter no wait longer. Jeans are waist high no low rise no wait somewhere else this year. Those rules were often said out loud. Others however, were more subtle. Watching my mother struggle to put on her girdle before getting dressed for church taught me that looking right meant having to change your body to fit the current style. Listening to her and her friends talk about the appearance of other women. I quickly picked up on the importance of dressing your age. I didn’t understand what the magic number was that puts you past your prime. Nor did I understand why someone shouldn’t wear clothes if they looked good in them. Sadly, I now realize that I was buying into a style rule of what it meant to look good in something are perfect legs needed to wear a mini skirt or shorts that stopped mid thigh is a flat belly required for a bikini. I’ve never had either. And my belly only pooched out more after one pregnancy and weight gain and loss. While my app muscles are tight, thanks to planks and crunches, the skin that covers them is flabby, and the only fix is surgery. Then there are the stretch marks that now decorate my abdomen. My body did this amazing thing and grow another human. Yet I am supposed to hide the evidence of that. And I never thought my arms were a problem until in my mid 40s I heard a doctor talk to other medical personnel about bat wings. What are bat wings, you know that flabby bit of flesh that hangs down when you hold your arms out to your sides. Wiggle your arms and they flap around a bit. After hearing that comment, I doubled down on tricep dips and other toning exercises. 15 years later, I can report that the flabby skin remains again, only surgery will take care of that. When I reflect on all the style rules I have heard and believed I realized they revolve around three things. One, the way your body looks to the age your body is and three, you will need to regularly buy new things in order to be stylish. You should avoid certain things if you are over a certain size. horizontal stripes make you look bigger and wear a lot of black because it’s slimming. Cover up the parts that don’t meet the ideal. And if your body isn’t made for the clothes, like my hourglass figure won’t work with the straight silhouette. Then you need to make your body fit into them, not the other way around. And then we get to the age related rules. Geez. No long hair after a certain age. No mini skirts when you cross a certain day on the calendar. I hate to let people know this. But at my age, my hair still is long, and my skirts often short. And what about the constant need to buy something to be in the latest style. New clothes are constantly pushed on us along with the reminder that it is new and stylish or fashionable. If we don’t participate we are well, I don’t know. What are we?

And there isn’t a focus on taking what we already have and wearing it in a new way. Oh no. We need new clothes to keep up with everyone else. Feeling the need to keep up as well. Enough trying to dress in a way that pleases me while also meeting expectations I’ve heard much of my life is exhausting. Therefore, I resolve to throw out all those rules and replace it with one guideline. Are you ready for it? How do I want to feel? What am I feeling on the inside that I want to express by the clothes I wear each day. Some days it is sexy, others it is all business. Sometimes it is playful, others casual. Once I discover how I want to feel that day, then I choose the clothes to wear that reflect that. It is a new way of thinking that takes trial and error. Some days I go through multiple outfits before I find what work. I have made several attempts at being fashionable throughout my life, but none of them stuck. Why? Because none of them were true to me. I was adopting someone else’s look, not finding my truth. Now, I start with me and go from there. As I adopt this new way of choosing what to wear, I’m noticing several things. At first glance in the mirror. I often like what I see. Then that ugly voice in my head starts fan pointing out all the flaws on display. Your hips are too wide in those jeans. If you turn to your side, anyone can see that your belly isn’t flat. Those two colors do not go together. You look silly wearing them. And the worst. What will people say? That voice must be shut out. I go back to that first glance in the mirror. Did I get a tingle at what I saw? If so, I stay with it. While other people may notice what I wear and have some mental comments on it. I also realized I spend more time critiquing my body than anyone else. So what if they question why I am wearing a skirt and is that short with leg like mine. I am finding combinations and tweaks that helped me dress quickly on busy mornings. It can be fun to play around with outfits when I have time, but stressful when I don’t. On those days, I grab a go to outfit and carry on. A few months ago, I cleaned out my closet determined to let go of things that made me feel bad when I wore them. Before I could donate them. However, I discovered ways to style them that do work for me. A tuck here a cuff there, some different accessories. And I put new life into my wardrobe without spending $1. While I try to buy most of my clothes at the thrift store, I’m happy to be able to find new ways to wear what I already own ways that reflect the true me. This isn’t an instant change, a switch that I can flip and be done with all those thoughts about the rules I am breaking. It is slow, and I work on it every day. But I hope this doesn’t deter you from trying it. Let go of all the style rules you have listened to and instead listen to that voice inside of you. The one that goes hell yes. When you look in the mirror wearing something that reflects who you really are. Imagine what the world would be like if the majority of people dressed in a way that made them feel good about themselves. I hope to see this be a reality in my lifetime.

Thank you so much to Taylor, Anna, and Gladys. They make it look easy, but I promise writing down your thoughts, then reading them aloud…it’s not easy! Thank you so much for taking the time to put these together. And even more importantly, to be vulnerable with all of us!

In an effort to use less paper (and also because when I’m taking notes, sometimes I can’t read my own handwriting), I’ve been doing this new thing where I type out notes using the notes app on my computer while I’m listening to audio, and wow, I feel like I typed out pages and pages of thoughts while I was listening to these essays. They are just that good!

All three members of our community talked about the power of our clothing to make us feel a certain way. Whether it’s a particularly fierce ensemble for elementary school picture day, what we wear to work out in the real world or from home, or the outfits we choose for “special” days, clothing shapes our mindset. Uncomfortable clothes (meaning physically or mentally uncomfortable) can ruin a whole day. The right outfit makes you feel like you are (to quote Mazzy Star), “ a superstar in your own private movie.” It can also make you feel anonymous and camouflaged. Sometimes that’s what we want! Clothing gives us the ability to fit in or stand out. We may not be able to change colors to blend into our background, but clothing does give humans a bit of chameleon-like magic.

It goes without saying that an outfit chosen for us by someone else–whether that’s a uniform or just something dictated by society–can strip us of our own personal identity. I mean, that’s the whole point of uniforms, right? To make you less the individual, and more the “student” or “worker.” And I would argue that these “rules” around what we can wear attempt to strip us of our own creative expression and freedom, too.

Everybody’s audio essays resonated with me in different ways. And all of them reminded me of ways in which my gender, age, and place in life lent me a different set of expectations around what I could/could not wear. You’ve already heard me talk about my mother’s really cruel insistence that I cut my hair short because I’ve passed some sort of mythological age where we must all cut off our hair and don a pair of sensible slacks and shoes. But that wasn’t the first time I REALLY felt the pressure to change my style and appearance. And shockingly, it goes back to my early 20s, when I had my daughter Dylan. I was 23 when Dylan was born, an age that seems practically embryonic in hindsight. Technically an adult (and I had been living on my own and caring for myself for many years at that point), but wow, there was (and remains) so much to learn!

I’m recording this episode on Mother’s Day, a holiday that brings me continuous sadness and despair. I’ve been waiting for that to get better over the years, but it only seems to get worse. And one cause of the sense of loss I have around Mother’s Day actually stems from my experiences as a young, single mother. The United States is ostensibly built from freedom and individualism, yet as a whole, Americans feel totally cool and justified in shitting upon people who are having a hard time. As a single mother (and one who looked especially young), I was the focus of so much disdain from strangers, co-workers, and so-called friends. I was a social pariah. Strangers asked me “how does it feel to be a drain on the system? Employers didn’t want to hire me. I was told that I was LUCKY that someone would choose to date me. Those we “dared” to date me saw me as someone who could be controlled and abused. And btw, lest you think these sentiments and behaviors are a relic of a not-so-distant past…well, go check out reddit, where I saw a post last week that began with “I fucking hate single mothers. They are ruining our society.”

The mere fact that I had a child was thrown in my face as proof that I was “slutty” or uneducated or unworthy of respect. I was damaged goods. And so I felt this pressure to deny any sexuality on my part in an effort to play down the fact that I was a single mother. As someone said to me years later “I don’t understand why people are weird about you having a kid? Because there’s proof that you had sex at least one time?” Yes, it really is that simple. And so I felt like I had to be covered at all times. If you’re a single mom and you’re “too sexy” then people build all these very cliche narratives about you: that you’re desperately looking for a sugar daddy. Or you’re just a victim of your own uncontrollable horniness. You’re a bad mom who doesn’t care about your kids and just wants a man really, really badly.

I love my kid and I have no regrets. But I’ve never wanted “mother” to be the first word associated with my name. I’m smart. I’m a good friend. A hard worker. I’m funny! And I’m also someone’s mom. But the stigma of being a single mother meant that while I couldn’t dress “too sexy,” I also couldn’t look too “mom-like,” whatever that means. Imagine having to walk this stupid line every day while getting dressed. It’s even more painful and confusing when you’re a person who loves style as a creative expression. “Okay, today I have be modest, but not too modest. Appealing but not too appealing.” WTF is that? Apparently it has something to do with dresses that aren’t too short, but also not too long. Necklines that are high, but not too high. Prints and colors that are eye-catching, but you know, not TOO eye catching. Blend in but don’t blend in. But also: don’t look too poor or messy, because your kid will be taken away from you. But don’t look too put together or “rich” because then everyone will assume that you’re spending too much time and money on your appearance and therefore, neglecting your kid.

So dumb.

But I’m not alone here. This is how our society treats women. This is how our society treats mothers. And this is how our society treats single mothers.

It’s interesting to look at these rules and ideas around clothing as a collective group hallucination, as Anna referred to them. When you take that perspective, it all seems pretty foolish. We can laugh at Henny Penny for getting everyone whipped up into hysteria about the sky falling. Maybe we also need to laugh at everyone for believing (without any facts to back it up) that women over 30 can’t wear miniskirts or people with stretch marks can’t wear crop tops. Fuck all of that noise. Style rules are bullshit, as Gladys said. Ultimately style rules are about control…and about fueling a consumer economy. Feel like you need to fit in? Buy more stuff to get there. The problem is these rules ruin style as a personal creative expression. And they lead to overconsumption, as we try on costume after costume, trying to find one that feels the most comfortable for us, instead of just (as Gladys says) dressing for how we want to feel. And then finding our community (like Taylor) where everyone sees us as the star and style icon that we really are.

Don’t let an industry dictate your personal style.

Don’t let internet trolls (and real life trolls) dictate your personal style.

Your personal life should NOT have a dress code.

Thanks again to Taylor, Anna, and Gladys for these amazing audio essays. I’ll be the first to admit that it is uncomfortable, if not downright scary, to be vulnerable about my own experiences, but I also realize that people will see themselves in my stories and know that they are not alone. There’s comfort in that, right? And by talking about these things we both normalize openness and begin conversations about how we and society can do better for one another.

So you all know by now that while I currently live in Austin, Texas, I consider Portland, Oregon my home. I moved there after the rollercoaster year in which my partner died and my daughter was born. It seemed like the right place to recover. I’ve lived there off and on throughout my adult life, and I’m sure I’ll end up there again. One of the friends I made in Portland is Elizabeth and you are going to meet her today! She has been an integral part of the Portland fashion scene since the early aughts, from producing fashion shows to covering Portland’s designers and boutiques for the Portland Mercury. She’s also an animal lover and an all-around kind, lovely person. Today she is going to explain the ins and outs of fashion shows. So let’s jump in!

Amanda

All right, Elizabeth, why don’t you introduce yourself to everyone?

Elizabeth

Hi, my name is Elizabeth Mollo. And among other things, I guess I want to talk about all the jobs I do. I am the inventory and operations manager at altar. I am a seamstress. Specifically I saw Greek Orthodox vestment. But one of my other jobs and what we’re going to be talking about today is that I am a fashion show producer,

Amanda

so many jobs, and they’re all like kind of different. So just for everyone who’s listening, I actually have known Elizabeth for a long time, because she is a Portlander. And she’s friends with my friend Alana, who I think I’m pretty sure I was thinking about this the other day, I think Alana was my first friend in Portland, because we both worked retail together and we just started hanging out so yeah, totally Elizabeth also just wanted to give a shout out to altar because that’s like one of my favorite places. And Paul, thank you yay. Amazing clothes and super size inclusive and they have great bathing suits. Just this is not a paid advertisement.

Elizabeth

Oh yeah. Oh no, the Selka bathing suit is like it totally.

Amanda

Yeah. Anytime someone asks me for a bathing suit recommendation, I’m like, Altar So I’d say go now. Alright, so we’re today we’re going to even though you have a lot of jobs, and they’re all very interesting. We’re going to talk about fashion shows specifically, which is not something I’ve talked about on the podcast before and I think it’s this whole fascinating world. You know, people think you say fashion show to them, they think okay, well, yeah, it’s like people walking around and clothes, and there’s some music, and that’s the end of it. But there’s it’s so much more, right. So how did you get into fashion as a whole because all of your jobs in one way or another relate to that, and more specifically fashion shows.

Elizabeth

Um, so I decided I want to get into fashion when I was in high school. So I am originally from San Jose, California. So I went to community college, I went to West Valley, and I took some fashion classes there. And then I decided to move up to Portland. And I went to the Art Institute of Portland and I got my bachelor’s degree in apparel design and graduated in 2005. Because I thought I wanted to be a designer, right but but somewhere along the way. I think it was my second to last year. I got involved in producing a fashion show called Doom town. And this was kind of like my stepping stone into producing fashion shows. This is the show I produced with my friend Aaron and it was like totally rock’n’roll DIY, it was at the Crystal Ballroom. It also had bands like glass candy played at our first show. Yeah, it was like, it was so rad. And it was like all our friends were the models and like, and like we had friends doing hair and makeup. It was like super DIY, like, I think this was 2004. So like, that’s kind of how poor the Portland fashion scene was back then. Yeah, but it was so fun. But like this, I did this while I was like still in school. I was working 30 hours a week at New Seasons. Like I produced a collection for the show as well. I was like, how did I do all of these things? Like all it was crazy. I mean, I guess that’s what being in your early 20s is right? Lakes true? Yeah. And so yeah, so we continued doing that show for a few years. And then we just decided not to do it anymore. It’s kind of hard for me to remember everything because this was so long ago, but I think while I was doing Doom town, I got involved with Portland Fashion Week as a volunteer like the low like very low on the totem pole. And I worked my way up and Portland Fashion Week eventually branched out to a show called Fashion next. And I kept working my way up and then I became the person who oversaw the entire backstage operations of that show. It was like a four day long show. international designers I learned a lot from that show. And then from there, I kind of branched off into doing fade to light which is like my my show that I’m the executive producer of and that I created. So I guess that’s sort of the timeline

Amanda

so what is it? I mean, like I said, a lot of people they think of like a fashion show and they’re like oh, it’s like some people walking around and some clothes like what could be complicated or hard about that? And you said something to me like oh no all the drama happens backstage

Elizabeth

oh gosh. Yeah. Oh my god so much drama. Um, like with with the shows that like I’m specifically in charge of I try to keep them drama free because I don’t like drama at all. I’m not that kind of person. But I mean, like the good kind of drama and the bad kind of drama. The good drama is like the X citement of the backstage, because quite frankly, like, I think watching a fashion show is boring. I think the fun part is, is the backstage part. But yeah, that’s where like, your adrenaline is running, everyone’s running around half naked, like trying to get dressed as quickly as possible. It’s it’s definitely, it’s definitely a fun time, but it is stressful.

Amanda

So let’s talk about, like, what it means to produce a fashion show and the work involved in that, like when how does it all start?

Elizabeth

So I’ll talk specifically about fade to light. So I start planning that show, I would start I haven’t had, there hasn’t been a fade to light in a couple of years, obviously. But I would start produce, I would start planning that show about six months in advance. I mean, that’s how long it takes to, to do all the things you need to do to produce a show I would start approaching designers, I would get the venue locked in, I would start trying to approach sponsors, get like my marketing plan all in place, get all my dates figured out of like, When am I going to do the model casting, when are all the due dates for all the deliverables for the designers like they need to get me their logo, they need to get me images, they need to get me like a blurb for the program. You know, and and then all the things that need to go into the fashion show as well like the video and the song and just all all of the things. So there’s I have to create that schedule. So I make sure I get all of my things on time. So yeah, that’s kind of how it works. That does that make sense? I hope I explained it right.

Amanda

Yeah. So okay, so how do you choose the designers you’re gonna work with? Well, a lot of

Elizabeth

the designers are our repeat designers like they come back. Beta light was a two was a twice a year fashion show. So a lot of designers, they would do it twice a year, because they would produce new collections twice a year, some designers only would show once a year, some would show every other year just dependent on when they wanted to do it. And then I would also be always be looking for new designers your show and then. And then especially towards the like the end of the show, I guess, or the last few years of the show, there’d be a lot of student work as well, which is really cool.

Amanda

And so do you do designers and make money off of a fashion show?

Elizabeth

No, no one’s making money on a fashion show. Like I am telling you like, like, no one’s making money, doing fashion shows, it costs so much money to produce a fashion show, like for the designer, they have to produce the collection, which costs money, they have to pay a designer fee. To me, actually, I try to keep it low, but that designer fee goes towards paying the models going to it goes towards paying, like my staff that helped me run the show goes towards all sorts of things, you know, like I have to buy food for the backstage, you know. And then so the designers have to pay the fee. And then fade to light also has a video component. So they have to pay for that video production as well. So it’s like it’s a duck, it’s definitely a cost. But it can be applied as a marketing cost, because they are doing the show to market their newest collection. So that’s how it’s like, that’s what’s the value they get out of it. So it’s like an investment. Really? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then for me, it’s like, like I had one model. Like because I you know, at one time I was producing like multiple fashion shows a year and she was like, Oh my God, you must be show Rich and I just started laughing. Like, no, I am not like that’s why I’m work multiple jobs. It’s like, just doing fashion show does not pay my bills at all.

Amanda

And yeah, no. Three jobs because they’re rich.

Elizabeth

Oh, no, no. Definitely, like a labor of love. You know, yeah, I

Amanda

can see that I can see. Okay, so like you start six months in advance, like booking the venue and choosing your designers. What comes next?

Elizabeth

Um, well, the biggest thing is like, you got to do the big announce, it’s like you got to make everyone want to come to your show, right. And that’s, that’s constant for like three months up until the day of the show is like, like, I even have like a schedule of like, I’m gonna do a Facebook post on this day. And this is what it’s gonna be. It’s like I have everything scheduled out or Instagram or whatever. And then another big one is the model casting. Because you have to do it. I usually do it about two months, one month to two months before the show, just so that I have time to like go through and like pick the models I want and then get all of their information together in a model database that I send to the design So they have all like the photos and the measurements and all that kind of thing. So yeah, it’s a lot of it’s a lot of planning, you really have to, like, make sure you have everything. Like, sooner than you actually need it. I guess I would say,

Amanda

yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, it’s like funny is so many like details here that most people wouldn’t imagine like that you have to schedule out all the social media posts and send all the information about the models to the designers, and there’s like, so much like, clerical work involved,

Elizabeth

you know? Yeah, it’s, it’s like, it’s basically spread. It’s like, it’s like staring at spreadsheets, like, that’s what most of producing. Yeah, that sounds a bit like, yeah, it’s like not glamorous at all.

Amanda

That’s like most fashion jobs. Honestly, like, I don’t know why fashion has this reputation as being glamorous, because it’s really spreadsheet intensive.

Elizabeth

Is and like, luckily, I love I love doing that. Like that’s part of my job at altar. And I mean, I just love I just love doing that kind of thing for some reason, so I don’t mind it.

Amanda

So okay, you said something, when we were like preparing for this episode that I have been thinking about, since we talked about it, and like now I like every time I see any sort of fashion show content. I like your voice saying This echoes in my mind. And you said, if a model has a bad walk, it’s all the audience will see. And not the clothes. So like you have to be really, I don’t know, like picky about the walk.

Elizabeth

Yeah, yeah. So like, like that sounds, I don’t know if that sounds shallow to some people. But to me, it’s like, if you’re a professional singer, you have to know how to sing. If you’re a professional dancer, you have to know how to dance. If you’re a professional model, runway model, specifically, you need to know how to walk. And that doesn’t necessarily need to be a specific kind of walk. You just know when it’s good or bad. That’s all. That’s all.

Amanda

Now, after you and I talked about it, I sent you this video from from this like, and this is fashion show in quotes from a reality show that I had watched and the guy was walking like a Neanderthal and it was really distracting.

Elizabeth

Yeah, it is so distracting. It’s like, it’s just all you can see is the model having a bad walk, it just I don’t know, I just can’t, I just can’t handle it. Because then like the person isn’t paying attention to the clothes, you know, it’s like, really, but you don’t also you don’t want your model to just be like a walking hanger either. There’s like a fine balance between like, like the models personality coming out what you want, but not like so much personality, that it’s just like overshadowing the clothing too. Right? So it’s like definitely like it’s a, it’s definitely a certain skill set that not every model has like some models are really good at runway but not at print some some are really good at print, not runway. And then there’s those lucky few that are really good at both. So just take us a certain kind of person that can be a runway model, I think, Oh, for

Amanda

sure. I mean, if I if people had to judge me based on my walk, I don’t even want to think about I used to like watch every big designer show like pretty religiously for work. And I don’t anymore. But I was always struck by like if I would go because I can’t really nostalgic for some of the 90s shows because they’re so iconic. And just thinking about some of the like really sassy signature walks that certain models had like Naomi Campbell, I always think of the way she would walk down the runway. I just think it’s like interesting, because it’s like you’re right, like, you don’t want them to be a hanger. Right? Yeah, but you don’t want them to be distracted.

Elizabeth

Yeah, but I mean, I’d like Naomi Campbell. That’s a whole other. I mean, designers putting Naomi Campbell in a show because they want the Naomi Campbell of it all you know.

Amanda

And like sometimes I’m like, is that a fashion show? I’m remembering or is that that video that George Michael video

Elizabeth

for freedom. Oh my god, I was obsessed with those. Oh my God as a sub to those videos. I loved them so much. Yeah, I totally like the 90s supermodel heyday. I loved love love that. It’s It was so good.

Amanda

It was so good. I mean, I feel like that was when runway shows. This is just my opinion. I’m sure you have much more educated strong opinion here. But I feel like that was the peak of like the big runway shows being just like so spectacular. And like we had a little bit of that in the early part of the century. But now it’s like kind of boring.

Elizabeth

Yeah, I don’t really I haven’t really watched anything recent. I know like Chanel will always do something crazy like don’t have like real like water with a with sand like it’s on a beach or something or they’re like that. There’s that one where there are all these like giant crystals everywhere.

Amanda

Okay, that’s Oh my god. Why that was a really I like iconic for sure. Yeah, they have all the money though.

Elizabeth

Oh, God does this. This is a thing that cost millions of dollars. Like yeah, they’re not making.

Amanda

Yeah, it’s pretty wild. Right? Yeah. So another thing that you told me and like, this was just so fascinating to me. Of course it makes sense, but it has to be really difficult to organize is that each designer would get their own hair and makeup look. So you would have to assign the models based on that. And so you would divide them into groups.

Elizabeth

Yes. So yeah, this is really complicated part, but also like a really elaborate puzzle that I always like to solve. So for fade to light, and actually, for a lot of other fashion shows, I would use a school called Beaumont. So it’s students doing the hair and makeup. But you know, being overseen by by instructors, and reais who was like the main person, like I would go to her salon, and we would seriously stare at like, designers hair and makeup pictures. Like I would probably be in there for an hour or so. And we just like rearrange it to be like, okay, we can do this way or this way. Because it’s like, basically, the show has to start with the most simplest hair and makeup. And then it gradually goes into things that are more complex, because it’s like, you can like start with a clean face and then add keep adding on makeup, but you can’t take it away, because then you’re taking off all the other kind of makeup. If that makes sense.

Amanda

I’m this sounds like an epic logic problem.

Elizabeth

It really is. It really is. But it’s also kind of fun to figure it out. And I’ve had some designers do some crazy hair and makeup schemes that I’m like, Oh my God, how are we going to do it? But then we ended up doing it. And it’s amazing. So, so yeah, it always, it always, it always like works out really well.

Amanda

Yes, that was so fascinating to me. I was like trying to wrap my brain around how that how that would work. So you don’t do all of this all by yourself, like you have people who help you, right?

Elizabeth

Oh, yeah, I think I don’t know if I would be able to do this by myself. I think I might, I don’t know what I do.

Amanda

So do you want to tell us about some of the other roles that are like deaf people who work with you and like what they do.

Elizabeth

So I am the executive producer. And what that means is I’m overseeing the entire show that includes backstage Front of House venue, just like anything that goes wrong. I’m the person that has to deal with that kind of. So um, but I have a big team that helps me out the backstage manager, she is specifically overseeing the backstage, which means, and she also has some assistant backstage managers, but she’s overseeing like, all the models, all the designers, dressers and things like that. And she’s also calling the show, basically, she’s the person that is next to me, telling the person on the other side of the curtain backstage to like, push the model out onto the runway. Okay, hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Um, so the backstage manager does a lot of things. Um, and I do also want to say that every single person that works in the backstage is in constant communication with the designers, the models, the dressers, and me, and I’m in constant communication with all these people as well. So it’s like, you just need a lot of different people like trying to make sure it all goes smoothly. So then there’s the assistant backstage managers, I usually have like two or three of them, they’ll be pushing the models from the backstage onto the runway, they’re lighting up the models, they’re making sure that everything’s just going according to plan. Sometimes the hobbit head dresser, or that could also be an assistant backstage manager position where they oversee all the dressers because we have to have a lot of dressers backstage to help the models get in and out of their clothing. So that’s a whole other thing. But the head dresser or assistant, backstage manager would just make sure that like all of the dressers know how each garment works. So, like if something’s really complicated, maybe they’ll do a trial run with that garment.

Amanda

I hadn’t even thought that but like There are clothes that I owe and that I personally am sometimes challenged to get on my body. I can’t imagine doing it for someone else.

Elizabeth

Oh, God, and imagine trying to do it in like two minutes.

Amanda

Yeah, like, your heart is like pounding thinking about it. Yeah.

Elizabeth

Oh my gosh, I’m actually flashing back to this moment. I can’t remember what show it was. But there was a model who had a really quick turnaround time where she walked for one designer. And then she had to very quickly walk for a completely different designer with like different hair and makeup and everything. So there were literally six people on this girl, like putting in turn to a different outfit while there’s a hair person like doing her hair and another person like doing her makeup like it was the craziest thing I’ve ever seen. Yeah, it was just like, oh my god, this is crazy.

Elizabeth

But yeah, wow. Yeah.

Elizabeth

And then I have a front of house manager who oversees like the ticketing, the volunteers Usher’s dealing with customer service, stuff like that. Um, so yeah, I mean, I hope I know I’m leaving out some people, but those are like, like the, the leadership roles.

Amanda

I mean, just lie like you’re managing a lot of people, right? And then you know, yes, and the models and the designers. And to a certain extent, you’re kind of like managing the audience to such just like, you have to have a lot of, I mean, in addition to being very good at spreadsheets, and being very strategic, like, I’m still my brain is still trying to solve this makeup. But you’re managing so many people that you have to have a lot of really strong people skills to do this.

Elizabeth

Yeah. Luckily, my team has been working with me for a long time. And so I don’t really have to micromanage them, which I don’t like doing anyways, you know, they just know what to do. They and they’ve all worked multiple different fashion shows. And so we just know what needs to get done. Which is great. Because like, I don’t want to have to be on someone to do like something while I’m trying to like put out a fire in another place. I mean, the Crystal Ballroom is like three different floors. And even though we have walkie talkies, like I like I will inevitably be going up and down those stairs like 5 million times during the day. Trying to make sure everything’s everything’s running. Okay, you know, so?

Amanda

Oh, yeah, like, like crazy. For people who are unfamiliar with the Crystal Ballroom? I would say it’s probably outside of like, stadiums. Like the biggest venue in Portland like it’s huge.

Elizabeth

Yeah, it’s huge. It’s like for, for like a regular concert. It fits 1600 people. So it’s like, it’s it’s a big venue. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda

Yeah, that’s pretty wild. It’s huge. And so, you know, I was talking to my husband, Dustin, and we lived in Portland. And he actually did a lot of sound for the Crystal Ballroom, and he totally remembers doing stuff for your show.

Elizabeth

Oh, wow. That’s really cool. That’s amazing. Yeah, yeah, he

Amanda

totally remember that. And yeah, that place is big. Like, they get big bands and stuff. Like it’s huge. Yeah. So okay, so you’re managing all these people, there’s so much going on. Another thing you mentioned to me is that like, about a week before the show, you’re gonna have like an orientation for everyone. Like, what does that mean?

Elizabeth

So like, so if we have like a front of house orientation. Usually, it’s like the weekend before the show. And that way we can like with most of the front of house volunteers, we walk them through the entire venue, and we just point out where everything’s going to be and what their roles are. Because yeah, like I said, it’s like three different floors. So some of the volunteers are going to going to be dealing with ticketing, some of them are going to be ushers. Some of them might be working security, although mostly security is done by Crystal Ballroom staff, which is great. Because like, they’re like, big burly people who like don’t care like what magazine or whatever you work for they it’s like, they don’t let people backstage which I which I love because I don’t want a bunch of weirdos backstage. You No, no. Yeah, I’m like, Yeah, it’s like, yeah, don’t come Don’t come in my backstage and I want you. Um, so yeah, so they just need to know how it’s gonna be like, what their jobs are gonna be basically. And then, about a week and a half or two weeks before the show, I have fittings, when all the models come to the crystal ball are majorly held about Chris ballroom. And we kind of go through a model boot camp where I have a model I used to work with a lot, but she has since retired, like she’ll come in and she will teach and perfect, like, model walks, basically. So she’ll have all the models walk, and then just like try and perfect, they’re walking. And then we have the fittings. So all the designers are there fitting their clothing to the models

Amanda

sounds really, really intense. And do you have like a dress rehearsal? Because it just seems like literally, everything could go wrong. I mean, think of all the things you’re juggling here, the hair and the makeup and the changing the outfits and models walking and not falling over and going in the right order. And

Elizabeth

so so we don’t have we do have a rehearsal, we don’t have a dress rehearsal. We do have, we do have a rehearsal. Um, so the day of the show is when we will have the rehearsal. And basically that’s when every single component of the show except for the clothing because sometimes the designers aren’t there yet. So because some designers are like literally sewing up to the last possible second, which drives me crazy but you know, whatever. They, the models will come in and we’ll have you will have all the seating setup and everything and the models will walk in and their order to the song that they’re going to walk to in the shoes that they will be wearing. That’s important. It is important. Yeah. So we do have a we have a rehearsal of the entire show. Every single segment gets its own rehearsal. And then I also rehearse the Like show finale because I want that to be perfect as well. And so I literally have the models in a specific order for that show finale, because they’re like, I should say, like, for those people who have never been to fade to light before, it’s a horseshoe runway, because that’s just cuz that’s the that’s the best way to utilize that room.

Amanda

Yeah, that makes sense. Like, yeah, sharing it. Yeah.

Elizabeth

So um, so normally, they’re like coming in, like, if you’re looking at the stage, they’re coming in on the left, and then they’re going going around and like exiting, right? But for the finale, I’ll have models coming out on both sides. And then they have to, like gracefully, like, cross over with each other. And they and I want them to be like, the same distance apart from each other. So it’s like, I’m rehearsing every single, every single thing.

Amanda

Yeah, I mean, I Yeah, it’s a lot. So I have a question for you, which is not something I asked you before, but it was on my mind as you’re talking about the finale. How for so long, like, in big, like, you know, luxury. Fashion shows the finale would always be a bride, like a wedding gown. Do people still do that?

Elizabeth

So I have only had one designer Do you that? Sonia Kasparian? And that’s because she also designs wedding gowns. So make sense? Yeah, most designers do not design wedding gowns. Like most of the designers I have. I mean, I’m trying to think of I mean, oh, gosh, yeah, I’ve done a lot of that’s the most recent example. But I think I’ve done a lot of shows where like the only designers that would show wedding gowns at the end. Do do specifically do bridal. So it’s like not every designer does a bridal gown. But what was cool about Sonia was that she had her actual clients wearing their wedding gowns. And I love that. Yeah, so that was really cool. Yeah, that was awesome. So okay,

Amanda

there’s months of work involves so many people, so many spreadsheets, so many, like really complicated problems to solve. Let’s talk about the financial side of the fashion show, because as you mentioned, spoiler everyone, you don’t get rich off of throwing me shows no, oh, my God. And for all the work, like, I feel like you should be getting at least a little bit temporarily rich. So let’s break down the expenses. Like where does most of the money gets spent?

Elizabeth

So models and lighting are the most expensive thing about a fashion show, at least for my fashion shows. I try and pay the models as much as I possibly can. And if I have like 40 models, that’s gonna add up really quick.

Amanda

Yeah, money. That’s a lot of money. And I hadn’t even thought of the lighting. But I mean, that’s the reality for just about any live show. It’s like shockingly expensive,

Elizabeth

it really is. Because it’s not not only are you paying to rent the equipment, but you’re paying the people who are skilled in working that equipment. So it’s really expensive. And like Not to mention, like the time it takes to set it up and break it down. So it’s just it’s a huge expense.

Amanda

Yeah, no doubt. And like, you know, you’re also like you were telling me some of the things you spend money on like promo video, backstage foods, the lanyards, the wristbands, the programs. How do you make the money to cover all those expenses?

Elizabeth

So yeah, so the aforementioned designer fees, obviously help. ticket price, like profits from the tickets also definitely help. So the more people you get in your show, the more money you make. And then I’ll also have sponsors and sometimes people will put ads in the program. And so that’s another way I get money for the show.

Amanda

That makes sense. I hadn’t even thought of all of that. Like these shows are not free for really anyone except Oh, the people who are being paid to be there. Basic. Yeah. So I am I already know this, but I could have guessed it anyway. You have not done a show in like more than two years now. Right are

Elizabeth

Yeah, so the last show I did. It was called unmentionable laundry exposition. That’s another fashion show that I helped produce with Cassie, who was the owner of Altar. We also produced the la serie for three fashion event together. But the unmentionable well what’s the last show I did in February of 2020. And then basically, I was planning on doing fade to light in March of 2020. But then we all know what happened, like, got the rug pulled out from under me. I kind of still traumatized from that. And yeah, so I haven’t, I actually did a virtual fee to light I think in September of 2020, which was really great. But I have not done a live fashion show since February of 2020.

Amanda

Or Do you think I mean, knock on wood? Like maybe things are getting better with COVID? Do you plan on starting again? Or is it like too scary? Because it’s like, when will it be safe? Yeah, I

Elizabeth

mean, quite honestly, like, after I got over the initial shock of fate to like being canceled, I was kind of relieved because I was like, I was just getting so burnt out on producing fashion shows. It’s like been a really, really nice break for me not having to do them for the last couple of years. Because like I said, I was like, doing multiple fashion shows a year working two other jobs. Like, I’m just, like, tired and burnt out, you know? Like, I need a break. Um, but for me, it’s like, I’m still too scared to do a fashion show, even though things with COVID are getting better. My, the thing that I keep thinking about is, like, once in a while at a at a show, like a model would drop out or call in sick and it would just, like, just fuck everything up. Like, oh, my god, Nightmare, like just one model. Like, imagine a five models like have to drop out because they’re sick, or they got exposed or whatever I like, I can’t even wrap my brain around that right now. It’s

Amanda

really scary. It’s like hard for me to imagine when it will be okay. Like, you know, I mean, I think that like a lot of us, like two years into this are like, well, we can’t get our hopes up anymore.

Elizabeth

Yeah, and quite honestly, I’m not really like, super crazy about doing another show right away. Like I said, I’ve really liked this break. So yeah, it’s like, I feel like if I wanted to do one in the fall, I would have already had to start planning it. And I haven’t so I think maybe I’m pushing it out to 2023. I don’t really know. I kind of don’t mind it being up in the air. So yeah, no idea,

Amanda

then you only have to work two jobs. So Exactly. Yeah. You only two. I mean, yeah, I can see. I feel like I mean, my hope is that 2023 is a better year because like, it’s still too early in 2022. To know, but like, I think we all thought 2021 was gonna be like really awesome. And then it wasn’t. And so now I think we’re all just like holding our breath. I don’t know. Like, that’s my I’m like, don’t make any plans for anything too far in advance. Like, even for me like for work. I booked all this tradeshow travel in January and February and I cancelled a big chunk of it, because I was like, It’s too dangerous. I don’t want to go, you know. And that was like all like, last minute. So I can’t even imagine, like, knowing that you have to play on this stuff so far in advance. Like it’s just I, I couldn’t handle it. I couldn’t Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Elizabeth

It’s like, and it just like, if I had to cancel it, it would just be too devastating to put all of that work into it. Because it’s not just it’s like, so many different people are involved with with putting on a fashion show that I just, I just can’t ask other people to like, spend time on it, and then have it be canceled. It just, I just I don’t know, I just can’t do it. Not Not right now.

Amanda

So like knowing that ultimately, fashion shows really serve the designers themselves, right? Because they get like people to see their work. It’s marketing. It’s, I mean, it’s a great chance for them to explain visually what their brand is, you know, how are designers doing that without shows for the last two years? Um,

Elizabeth

I mean, Instagram. I don’t know, Instagram, I think maybe, um, yeah, I know, there’s been some boutiques that have closed sadly, because of COVID. But there’s a lot of people that keep charging on, um, I know a lot of a lot of people like, I think there’s been like, small, like, small fashion shows here and there where like, one brand will do something and like, it’ll be really small. Or like, they’ll have events in their shop or whatever, like stuff like that. I think yeah, I think Instagram doing really small events. I think that’s how designers are, are, are still getting their stuff out there. And like I said in September of 2020 I did do a virtual face to light which was really amazing. It was so much less work for me. Because what I had the designers do is I just had the designers like shoot a longer video than they normally would for fake like for fade to light usually it’s like 30 seconds to like a minute and 30 seconds or two minutes or something but for this one it’s like oh no, you can do like a five minute video and like make it as weird as you want. And the designers like really really produced some really great stuff and you know everyone filmed during the summer so like all all the shoots were outside. So they were safe. Like I did a promo video for it and like all of my shooting was outside as well. So that was really fun. And then it was like you know, then people just watched it at home. But I think I would love to do another one but I don’t know if there’s like the market for it. I don’t think people want to sit at home and watch a fashion a virtual fashion show?

Amanda

Not right now. I think I like I’ve just noticed in the past like month or so that maybe even a little longer there people were like, Oh no, I’m getting out there like we Yeah, I live in Austin and South by Southwest, like people came here to see shows. Like, you know, for the first time in like two years, I think people are ready to get back out there even though they might not understand the risk that anyone putting together these events, whether it’s live music or fashion show, like the risk that they’re taking on basically by attempting to do it, you know, yeah,

Elizabeth

it’s like, like, I went to a show at the Crystal Ballroom a couple of weeks ago, I saw sparks and it was a packed sold out show. It was crazy. But like, everyone was wearing their masks. It’s it felt safe. So I’m just like, you know, at some point, it’s like, like, I’m Vax, I’m boosted I had COVID I just want to like, get on with my fucking life. In a safe way, you know, right. Yeah. So it’s like, anyway, yeah, yeah. I think like doing a live show like that. It’s a little easier, because maybe there’s less people involved? I don’t know. And then if the band canceled and whatever. Yeah, fashion show. I feel like there’s so many more people involved. Oh,

Amanda

yeah. You got models and backstage people in front of house people. And I mean, it’s, the more people are involved, the more it could go sideways, for sure. Yeah. So you know, like, since the beginning of the pandemic, there have been 9000 Think pieces written about how the pandemic has affected fashion. And I have, like, you know, I remember the beginning, it was like, now everyone’s gonna wear sweat pants for the rest of the time. It’s the end of fashion. Clearly, that did not happen, because like, that’s never going to happen. But I was wondering, like, you mentioned how, like, a lot of boutiques in Portland have closed and you’ve been like, such an essential part of the Portland fashion scene forever. You know, I mean, what did he use even write a column for Portland mercury?

Elizabeth

Yeah, I did. I did write I was one of the writers. Like after Marjorie Skinner left the Portland Mercury I took over I was one of the people that took over the fashion column, I would write a column, like, once a month, and then I would do blog posts as well. So yeah, I was like, oh, there’s like, there’s my first job.

Amanda

So it’s like you you have lived through. I mean, like, in the early aughts, when you started doing shows like that was like fashion was just starting to like, become a scene in Portland. So you’ve, you’ve seen it through a lot of different changes and times. I was just like, wondering, like, what do you think is happening in Portland right now with fashion?

Elizabeth

I’m, like, I kinda don’t know. I’m, like, really bad at following up with people. Because, yeah, like, all I know, is like the company I work for, like, I know what we’re doing. And I think a lot of other companies are like, in a similar position as us where we’re just like, trying to charge on as best we can. Right? Like, it’s been, it’s been really hard. I think for every single designer in Portland has been really hard. But um, but yeah, we’re all just like, keep trucking along, just like pivoting and whatever way we can. Like, maybe most of our sales are online now. Like, you know, like doing lots of stuff online. But yeah, I think, yeah, I don’t know. I guess I don’t really have a good answer for that. No, I

Amanda

mean, I think that’s like the best answer because I think that that’s kind of where everyone is right now. Yeah. Oh, like No, unless you’re like a big brand, a big designer, even still, I’m sure things are weird and unpredictable and nerve racking. But like everybody I know, who owns a boutique or has a line, you know, anywhere in the country right now is like, you know, some of them really successfully pivoted to online, which seems like Altar did as well. But then I have tons of other friends whose stores had to close they or their line had to stop or they just had to start doing their line like in their house, you know, like, like, it’s, it’s been really, really challenging for like, like, smaller indie designers.

Elizabeth

Yeah, I mean, on the one hand, it’s like it’s easier for a smaller brand to pivot because you don’t have to go through corporate or whatever. Like literally three people are working there and everyone’s just like yeah, let’s just do that now. You know, but and for a bigger brand is like but it must be so difficult and then also you have like all that inventory that you don’t know what the hell Oh man.

Amanda

Yes, seriously. I mean, you definitely could see like the crazy fire sales for a while there. Oh my god rants but it seems like I mean, I I’m that person who always tries to see like the positive in any situation and I do feel like it’s really like the the designers and the brands they’re gonna come out of this are going to be like stronger and better than ever, and probably, like, more efficient and less wasteful, you know? Oh,

Elizabeth

yeah, totally. Because it’s like, you’re like, Okay, I need to cut my cost here are the things that I don’t need anymore. Here’s how I’m going to cut my costs. Maybe part of that is cutting labor costs. But, you know, it always sucks. But it’s like, understandable because a small company has limited resources, especially a company. You know, that’s not backed by a VC or whatever. Like, I don’t, I don’t know of any small brands in Portland that are, are backed by that kind of thing. Everyone, everyone’s pretty much just doing it themselves.

Amanda

Totally, totally. I mean, I did work for a Portland brand that is backed by Vc, but I don’t think people think of them as like a fashion brand either.

Elizabeth

So yeah, yeah, totally. Um,

Amanda

okay. So, you know, one thing you and I were sort of talking about before is like, what do we think the future like, when it’s time to start having fashion shows again, because I just I don’t think they’re gonna go away like this is? It’s an experience, right? It’s art.

Elizabeth

Yeah. I mean, I hope they don’t go away. And you know, I do want to do fashion shows again, in the future, when I feel like, it’s, I feel like, I’ll know when I’m ready for it again, totally. Like, I don’t want to rush into it. And then because like, you know, towards, like, I think in 2002, end of 2018 2019. Like, I was actually starting to hate it.

Amanda

Wow, that is Yeah, interesting. But I mean, that doesn’t surprise me. I mean, it’s a grind. Yeah. And

Elizabeth

like I have, I have this thing where a few years ago, I said to myself, like, I want to produce almost every single fashion show in Portland. And then it happened. And I’m like, oh, fuck, no, this isn’t really what I want. Too much. So yeah, I mean, like I said, like, being able to take this break has been really great. But I do. I do. Like, I do still love it. I like it. I feel like I’m good at it. I know, people want me to do it again. So I will I just don’t know when. So yeah.

Amanda

I mean, in your future vision of shows like, how would you like to see them evolve?

Elizabeth

Well, I definitely want to see more inclusivity, I’ve always tried to have, I’ve always had my fashion shows tried to be inclusive, although there are limitations to that. Because with these small designers, they’re only producing, like, one size of a sample. And not all of these designers do plus sizes, which is fine. They’re small brands, it’s expensive to invest that money in doing plus sizes. I know because I work for a company, like Altar offers up to size six XL. So it’s like expensive to invest in that. But it’s like really amazing when a company can write. So it’s like, yeah, I think I think I want to, I think designers are trying to be more inclusive, though. As much as they possibly can, again, like I only work with really small designers I’m not working with, with big designers, I have a bunch of money, which I still don’t understand why like big designers don’t invest that money and getting extended sizing. I just don’t understand it. Like if we if altra can do it. Anyone can do it.

Amanda

Oh my god. Seriously, I was just editing an episode that will be out before this. And, you know, that’s like something I said in it. I know, all these people who are small makers are like, Altar. I know, you guys like make things to order. You’re doing all the sizes. And like, I know that altar doesn’t have a ton of money in the bank or like a huge team. And it’s like, if they can do it, or like one person on Instagram can be doing it. Like why isn’t everyone?

Elizabeth

Yeah, exactly. It’s just like, come on, come on people. But together. Yeah. But um, you know, and basically like going back into model casting. Before I even did the casting, I would ask designers like, what are your specifications for your models? And they would tell me like the specifics of like, I need them to be about this tall, like this size, whatever. I’m hoping that maybe designers will be a little more fluid with that, like, maybe get some shorter models. Because that’s like, because that’s like, one of the main things was like the models got to be tall, you know, so maybe, maybe we can like lower that height requirement. A little bit. I mean, I’m like five feet tall, so I get it. But and then, yeah, so maybe that I will hopefully that I should say, hopefully more inclusivity definitely.

Amanda

When you look back at all the shows you’ve done. What was your favorite show or your favorite designer to work with? Or just like the I don’t know, the one you were the most proud of?

Elizabeth

Oh my god. This is like so hard. Well, actually, I should say. In the September version, or September 2019. Fade to light I did this segment. It was like an avant garde, sacred it that I kind of produced because I wanted to have a little more creativity. Like, like I love doing the spreadsheets. But also I’m a like a creative person and I wanted to bring some of that creativity into the show. Yeah. So like I did this avant garde segment. Where I was, I was, I still am obsessed with rebels Bolero. I don’t know if you know that. Yeah, totally obsessed with it. And so that was like my inspiration. And the models walked down the runway to that song. And I had the designers pull the inspiration from that song to make one original piece for that segment. Which was really cool. So cool. I love Yeah. And then I had, I take dance classes at body box. And so I had my dance teacher, Sarah Parker, we created we did a video of her in an Altar outfit that we showed on the screen. And then she actually came out and danced on the runway before the models came out. It was like really, really cool. Wow, that’s so I like I’ve had other designers like bring in dancers bring in live band, like I actually performed with my Siouxsie and the Banshees cover band, for one designer, like I’ve had designers bring in a lot of different like live elements. And I want to like keep that and keep bringing more of that into the show. Like I want to I want to make it weirder, if I can.

Amanda

I mean, that sounds amazing. You’re making me excited for future shows. Yeah, totally. What would your parting message be to everyone, whether it’s about fashion shows, or fashion in general, or just something that’s on your mind that you want everyone to know?

Elizabeth

I would say like, maybe people think that fashion shows are frivolous? And maybe they’re like, elitist or like non inclusive. And I will say that some fashion shows are but I think just like seek out the ones that aren’t there’s a lot there are a lot of really cool independent brands, independent producers, like they’re all doing really rad things, and we’re all trying to like do it the best we can. So I think there’s like there’s there is a value in fashion shows. And, like improving how we can how we can produce them in the future.

Amanda

I mean, I love that I think it’s true. You know, I think that we forgotten that fashion is actually like an art form. And fashion shows remind us of that.

Elizabeth

Yeah, totally. Yeah, it should. It should be a crossover of marketing and art. Like if it if it veers too much into one thing. That is like sometimes just too weird. You’re like, I don’t even know what’s happening right now. But then if it’s like too heavy on the marketing, then I’m like, This is fucking boring. Like, why am I here? Like,

Amanda

yeah, no, I agree. And I think that’s a really challenging balance. Because you know, the goal is to get the brand out there and show the clothing but it’s also to, like, convey who that brand is, who that designer is, like, what their, what their taste is. And like what inspires them. Yeah,

Elizabeth

yeah, exactly. And I really, really think that, like, I hope that my shows really give designers the platform to show who they are and like, get as weird with it as they want or maybe not as weird with it. Some designers just want to like show their clothing and their. And that’s it, which is totally fine. Which I love. Because if every designer was being super weird, then that would veer to the like, oh my god, this is super weird. Yeah, it would be a lot it would be so yeah, it’s you gotta like find that balance of like, of having all the things so it’s like a well rounded show.

Amanda

Yeah, I love that. It means you’re making me excited to see shows.

Elizabeth

Yeah, I’m actually I’m actually getting excited. But I still have that thing of like, I can’t deal with five, six models. Like I can’t. I can’t do it. I don’t know how to do it.

Amanda

Right, right. Well, you know, maybe in a year, maybe you’ll be like rested up and ready to do it again. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. This was so fun. Thank you.