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Is reselling secondhand unethical?
This week’s episode is part three of what is now a FOUR episode series (surprise!) examining the ethics of secondhand resale with Alex of St. Evens.
In the third installment, we will be exploring the final myth: Resellers misrepresent what they’re selling, list things at wildly inflated prices, and overall behave miserably both online and in person.
We will also explore what we think is at the root of all of this anti-reseller rhetoric that just seems to become more and more extreme with each passing day.
Thank you to everyone who contributed to this episode: Chloe, Tamara, Jules, Haylee, Jaimie, Josselyn, Maddie, Momina, Ann, and two different people named Erin!
Welcome to Clotheshorse, the podcast that is locked in my office because our washing machine is being super loud today. The glamour of podcasting! Hopefully you won’t hear anything has my washing machine shifts into the spin cycle.
I’m your host, Amanda and this is episode 161, part three in the series I have been doing with Alex of St. Evens exploring the ethics of secondhand reselling. When I began my work on this, I thought it was going to be a two part thing, but as Alex and I spoke, as the hundreds of emails rolled in from members of our community, I rapidly realized that this was going to be a three part series. Well, my friends, it turns out that this will be a four part series. And at the end of this episode, I’ll tell you more about what that fourth episode will look like and how you can participate!
In this now four episode series, we are examining the five major arguments thrown out there to argue for the unethical nature of secondhand resale:
In the first episode, we debunked the first two myths:
Last week, we debunked two more:
And in today’s episode we will be exploring the final one: Resellers misrepresent what they’re selling, list things at wildly inflated prices, and overall behave miserably both online and in person. We will also explore what we think is at the root of all of this anti-reseller rhetoric that just seems to become more and more extreme with each passing day. Yesterday someone literally told me on instagram that by encouraging secondhand resale, I am participating in genocide. I mean, what? Do you know what that word means? But this is the kind of rhetoric we are seeing on social media, all directed toward resellers: comparing them to landlords (one of the cruelest comparisons you can make in 2023), colonizers (also pretty ugly), and just general accusations of “stealing” from poor people and being horrible monsters.
One thing we never see being brought up by critics of resellers is the benefit they are creating, and that really bothers me. I think there is this belief that resellers are only in it for the cold hard cash, but don’t give a fuck about the people they are serving or the environmental and social impact of reselling secondhand clothes. As someone couldn’t choose to make a living from something that they also believe has a positive impact. Isn’t that the goal for all of us? I mean, other than winning the lottery and opening an animal sanctuary, right?
By now, you all know that I have been no-contact with my mother for more than three years. Something that I struggled with as both a child/teenager and as an adult is that my mother could never believe that I might actually be a good person. That anything I did for another person that was kind or thoughtful, she could only see as having an ulterior motive. Rather than just being proud of herself for raising a good kid, she created these narratives of duplicity and…scamming, about anything I did. It’s an awful lot of work to just see the worst (or the fictional worst) in people. And I can’t help but think that many of the people screaming the loudest on social media against resellers are channeling all of this energy into creating an incredibly harmful narrative about resale. Once again, we’re just talking about individuals selling secondhand stuff to other people. And this work does have a positive impact. The fact that money exchanges hands doesn’t negate that. I get that the state of the world, the unfair systems in which we are forced to struggle to live, can make anything with money involved automatically harmful. But it is not the exchange of the goods and services for money that is the problem, it’s the exploitation, waste, greed, and cruelty of capitalism that can make the exchange of goods and services for money a problem, when done with greed and lack of care for the world around us. Remember, the vast majority of us don’t have the luxury of “quitting” the capitalist economic system because we need a place to live, food to eat, healthcare, and so on. Until we start getting that stuff for free, we all have to make money somehow. And in the grand scheme of things, selling secondhand clothing seems like one of the least harmful ways to make a living.
Many resellers are making secondhand clothing more accessible to people who don’t have the privilege of time, mobility, and/or access. They are also spreading awareness around the longevity and value of clothing, and offer an alternative to fast fashion. For those who might be nervous about shopping secondhand on their own, they offer support and guidance, along with styling inspiration. Before we move on to the next thing I want to discuss with all of you, let’s listen to this audio message from Haylee.
Last fall, I did a post on instagram exploring the privilege of access to thrift stores. Basically I had gotten tired of comments along the lines of “I don’t know why people just don’t thrift instead of shopping Shein” or “people who don’t thrift are just lazy and reckless.” Well, that’s just not true. And to be fair, if you’re being exposed to all of this rhetoric online that only so-called “poor” people should be thrifting, and everyone else has to go somewhere else…well, you might assume that while you can’t afford ethical brands (or they don’t offer your size), that it means that you aren’t poor enough to shop thrift stores or you have no place being there. So yeah, you might end up shopping Shein instead.
Anyway, this post on instagram blew up in two different ways: on one hand, people were like “thank you, I’m glad someone is finally explaining why I don’t thrift or why I only shop ThredUP.” And then there were other people who just exploded on me in a very toxic, not-okay way. There was a commenter who just refused to believe that everyone didn’t have easy access to thrift stores, no matter how many other commenters tried to reason with her. Eventually I just blocked her and moved on because she was blowing me up all day. Others straight up turned to bullying, clearly not reading the post, because to them “privilege” is only economic, and I wasn’t talking about that enough. It got really ugly and I ultimately turned off comments and DMs for the weekend.
That said…not everyone has access to thrift stores on their own. Period.
It takes a lot of time to find what you need! If you work a lot, are a caregiver, or just have other stuff on your plate, spending an hour or two digging isn’t possible.
As thrift stores move further away from city centers, thrifting requires access to a car or the time to take a long bus ride.
Thrifting is also challenging if you have mobility or health issues. And if you’re immunocompromised, shopping IRL during a pandemic is a scary endeavor!
If you have small children, thrifting is HARD!! You need time, your kid(s) has to be in the right mood (not hungry, not tired). It is so hard to find that magical window…and then use that time to scour the racks for something you like that also fits you.
And oh yeah: let’s not forget that it is really difficult to thrift clothes for larger people, taller people, and petite people. Sure, those items are out there, but it takes even more time to find them! So if you are facing any of the other challenges that I just listed, thrifting feels IMPOSSIBLE!
For that reason, I am super grateful for secondhand resellers because they make secondhand clothing more accessible to people who don’t have the time, mobility, and accessibility to shop secondhand IRL. Yes, the prices are higher than a thrift store, but as I mentioned in the previous episode, when we shop secondhand from a reseller, the garment is only part of what we’re getting. We’re also getting the service of the hunt, the cleaning, mending, and expertise!
Members of the community had thoughts about this, so let’s hear a few of them. Let’s get started with this audio message from Jaimie. She does the majority of her secondhand shopping from resellers
So Jaimie touches on the luxury of time. And real talk: without the access to resellers, she would probably end up buying more new stuff rather than opting for secondhand.
Some great thoughts from Jules, who does appreciate and utilize secondhand resellers, but also sees some issues:
For all my reliance on them, I have mixed feelings about resellers.
The people I have had positive experiences with, whose ethics and values around consumption are obvious and aligned with mine, who provide me with an opportunity to shop secondhand, are absolute gems and lifesavers. Some have even become friends!
Other sellers have been less than inspiring – I find that some resellers lean hard into scarcity and other capitalist practices, teasing new clothing drops, facilitating bidding wars for in-demand items, and even using the same kind of advertising that I despise in fast fashion retailers (“this season’s must-have winter coat” and that sort of thing).
There is also the whole concept of “browsing” reseller pages and the way that they advertise new stock drops to encourage this – it’s not really advocating for doing more with less or being mindful about how and why we consume and buy clothing.
Pricing can also be wildly variable, and I don’t love how some people make a practice out of sourcing only high end labels and popular fast fashion brands and then charging a premium for those items (sometimes 60-80% of what the item costs new, especially if it’s in mint condition).
I tend to gravitate towards sellers who source a broad spectrum of stuff, provide accurate and complete details about the garments, don’t engage in bidding or similar practices, and who charge affordable and realistic secondhand prices, because while I can absolutely afford to buy stuff at full retail price, I also want thrifting from resellers to be affordable and accessible to others who may struggle with time and accessibility and who don’t have my financial privilege.
I accept that all of these people are running a small business at the end of the day and that they need to cover operating costs etc., but seeing some resellers leaning hard into the same scarcity-driven overconsumption narratives that constitute the underlying problem is unfortunate and highly off-putting.
The positive is that you really can vote with your wallet here (smaller scale) and also make a point of sharing and boosting people who follow and encourage an overall sustainable approach.
To be clear: there are definitely some resellers out there engaging in some dubious behaviors, like price gouging, adopting a fast fashion mindset for marketing themselves, even just being absolute scammers and jerks. But as Alex and I are going to discuss later in this episode, there are assholes in every industry. Just because the work is valuable, doesn’t mean everyone doing it is a paragon of virtue.
Okay, some more thoughts from members of the community:
From Josselyn:
“I do most of of my shopping from Online resellers on Poshmark and Facebook marketplace. (I do this for clothes for me, my husband, and children and household items). I do this for several reasons. I am primarily looking for organic or at least 100% natural fibers (cotton, wool, linen). I am looking to reduce our wearing of plastic, washing it and allowing more micro plastics in our homes/water etc. and ensure that our clothes are lasting longer without the wear of synthetic fabrics…so it is easier for me to use specific search terms and look for specific brands I know that have reliable GOTS certifications etc or brands that may just be cotton yet I know their fit, style, wear is good.
I am Overall trying to become more minimalist (recovering from a family of borderline hoarders) and I have two young children so going into stores is challenging because it has to work with schedule and I have to manage the two children and it is more time consuming/likely we end up coming home with more than if we did online. We also may not find fabric/brands we are looking for.
I do live with a cool trendy consignment store in my town and a church based thrift shop (that my mom helps to run) in my town and a Savers one town over so I have plenty of access and I do utilize those but primarily use online because it is just much more efficient for us.
From Maddie:
“I’m so grateful for resellers who sell plus sizes- i strongly believe that their labor for the searching, sourcing, organized, should be compensated well. when people complain about a random girl on tiktok reselling thrifted items, they don’t know about the huge amount of labor, time, energy, organization, financial, and communication difficulties that resellers face. finding cool shit that might have value is the fun of the thrift, but doing that professionally is a real job, but unfortunately capitalism works to devalue labor. sometimes i think items are too pricey but that just means it’s not for me!!”
From Momina:
“I realize the most ethical way to buy (if at all) is to go myself to a thrift store and spend a few hours there. But with work, chores, and hobbies it is hard to add another time intensive thing to my life.”
From Erin:
“I started buying from these sellers as a baby step to lowering my environmental impact. I’ve been a big buyer of fast fashion in the past (mostly for financial reasons), but following these sellers makes me think twice about buying something new – how many times will I wear this? What do I know about the brand? Do I even like this, or does it just look inviting because it’s well-displayed?
Buying secondhand has become a great way for me to make ethical purchases. It’s so fun to see the styled photos, so meaningful to support small businesses, and so sincerely nice to see community over competition between sellers.”
Okay, this is a great transition into the next thing I wanted to discuss today: the community created by secondhand resellers. We are going to touch on this in my conversation with Alex today, but as I was going through everyone’s messages, I was struck by this recurring theme of community, friendship, and mutual support. In fact, I would say there is a level of community amongst secondhand resellers and customers that is just incredible, and very unlike the relationships most of us have with any of the other places that take our money every month.
From Ann:
“I’m not super up to date on the discussion going on in the interwebs about re-selling, but at the end of the day, re-selling has created a community for an array of people with different financial backgrounds. This community is like therapy for many people, and It’s a jump start point for a bunch of small businesses.’
From Erin of East West Shop:
“Reselling isn’t easy work. It’s time consuming and back straining work. It’s dusty and sometimes you stick your hands into some nasty things. But saving a garment from certain death has such a joy to me. And reenergizing it and helping it find a new home feels like a radical act of kindness to the Earth.
I think about all the energy that went into making each garment. Each saved and re-treasured piece is something to celebrate. Sometimes the digging culture out here feels intense. People need to be supportive of each other and celebrate what each other has found.
To me the problem is definitely not the resellers. The problem is that fast fashion is totally taking over the 2nd hand market. And those goods don’t have as many sellers. And/or the quality of the fabrics and styles are such a snapshot trend that they don’t have many buyers.”
In our conversation, Alex and I are going to explore why we think resellers are the focus of so much vitriol, but it’s hard not to see that maybe, just maybe, there are a lot of people out there who might not be stoked to hear about a strong community of women, nonbinary, trans, and queer people. But that’s what both the secondhand community and the slow fashion community are. And creating cracks in that–like this explosive discourse around the ethics of secondhand reselling–can break us into factions, make it easier to ignore and control us. I know this sounds very “extra” of me to say, but… why are we destroying one another and our relationships over a bunch of myths around thrift stores, secondhand, and the intentions of resellers? I’ll share more of my thoughts about that at the end of this episode, but for now I’ll just say this: It makes me really, really angry and sad that these false arguments are dividing us and preventing us from working together to make serious change in this world. I know this is just podcast and therefore, its scope and power is pretty limited, but even if it could plant a tiny seed that grows into a tiny sprout of realization that motivates where they stand on this issue, then it’s a success. Because that person might tell another person, who might tell another person. Or at the very least, it’s one less person leaving negative comments on someone’s TikTok about thrifting.
Okay, with that…let’s get into the last part of my conversation with Alex. There’s a lot more to discuss afterwards!
Amanda:
This brings us to myth number five. Resellers misrepresent what they’re selling, and overall behave miserably both online and in person, which is this, there’s just like this caricature of the reseller.
Alex:
This is one that I see all the time that particularly grinds my gears. So I recently saw a comment on a video and someone said, “once you see people literally fist fighting in a Goodwill over a rolling island so they could resell, your opinion might change. I stopped going to Goodwill after seeing things like this happening over and over. Money is emotional.”
This is not a reseller issue. This is called being an asshole. It’s like, if you saw a bar fight and you were like, I’m not gonna go to bars anymore because people who go to bars are always fighting.
Amanda:
Listen, one time I was at a show and someone put a cigarette out on my head, but I haven’t given up on music.
Alex:
Like unfortunately, there are bad people in every single industry. Resale is not immune to that.
As the industry grows, as more people like join in on participating in this, there are going to be more shitty people that choose
Amanda:
Bad people are all over the place, guys.
Alex:
It’s also interesting because so many of the issues that I see people describing actually have really specific names. So, you know, people who are like employing bots to buy up dozens of rare sneakers on the drop days to resell…
Or people who are like marking up items at a really high price or, you know not disclosing damage or they’re saying that it’s one brand and it’s actually another. Those are called scammers. That’s not resellers.
These are people that are participating in bad business practices that we actually have terms for they’re seen in every industry. And I feel like I see all of these comments about people like, I see people selling Walmart t-shirts for hundreds of dollars and I just see this sentiment repeated so often and I’m really confused as to why we’re so fixated on this. First of all, I’m not necessarily seeing a lot of that. And I just like are people actually selling this stuff? Like, is this that big of an issue?
Amanda:
Okay, so this is really interesting because this is something I hear a lot to and I definitely did get messages about like, yeah, well, I’m fine with people selling secondhand but what about the people who get the shop the clearance racks at Target or Ross or whatever and then sell it on posh market a higher price and I’m kind of like, listen, if people are paying that price and buying it like more power to them. If it’s that ridiculous, no one’s buying it and then they won’t do it anymore.
Alex:
Also, if there’s dozens of an item on a clearance rack at a store, like that means that people didn’t want it. Like that likely means that that inventory isn’t going to get purchased at the Ross or the Walmart. And then what? You know, at least if someone is buying it and reselling it, then like someone’s taking it and wearing it, which is better than the alternative of it just getting thrown away. And it’s just so interesting because people are so fixated on people selling stuff but like, you just can’t last very long as a reseller if that is what you’re doing.
I don’t think that that makes up a large majority of what resellers are doing. And it’s just so interesting because, you know, this behavior at the end of the day, it hurts other resellers more than it does anyone else.
Amanda:
Yeah, you know, I, so I received a few messages and comments about people reselling new stuff that they bought at places like that, right? And there was a lot of fury that like these people are really bad. And I was like, you know, the reality of it is, is that no one’s going and buying all the stuff off the Target sale rack or from Ross or what have you, if they don’t need money, okay? Like it’s not a fun job. And no one’s getting rich. Dustin and I were talking about it because when we were younger it’s like one of these things that we’ve bonded over on like maybe our first date because we’re both from sort of the same part of the country. There was a chain of stores called Gabriel Brothers and it was sort of like two rungs below Ross where a lot of the stuff was damaged or you needed to remove a stain but it was all new stuff. It’s just like maybe it was a regular fit it had like it was missing a button or just like somehow like maybe the truck that it was delivering it had been in an accident and then Gabriel Brothers bought the whole truck and it was like a whole bunch of Nikes whatever you know and I would when I was like super broke I specifically remember this time period where it was like right after Dylan was born and I was working all the hours I could at the cafe inside Barnes & Noble proudly serving Starbucks coffee which meant I had literally no money You can’t support a family on that. I would sometimes go to Gabriel Brothers, and if I saw a brand that I knew people liked, and there were a bunch of t-shirts there or something, yeah, I would buy them for $4 apiece and list them on eBay so that I could buy diapers or pay my bills. I never was like, oh, now I’m, wow, look at all this money. I’m stacking in my bank account. And Dustin had similar stories where he’d be like, yeah, at one point I was sleeping on couches, couch surfing, and I really needed to be able to make a security deposit on an apartment. But when you’re making minimum wage, it’s just impossible. And he said, one time I was at Gabriel Brothers at that time, and they had all these Nike running sneakers that I knew people were obsessed with. And I bought all of them with the last bit of money in my checking account. I sold them all in eBay, and then I could move into an apartment. And I was like, right, people aren’t getting rich off of this. It’s just like living in this world is hard.
Alex:
Also, like, I don’t… how does this differ from any business?
Amanda:
I know. Well…
Alex:
Like, is business not buying something at one price and selling for another price? Like, is that not literally just how retail works for every single store ever? How is that unethical? Like, drop shipping or order buying bulk off of Alibaba and selling it is like fine. Or even like Target, you know, mass manufacturing stuff and then selling it at a 500% markup is okay. Like I don’t, like, what’s the difference?
Amanda:
You bring up a good question there, right? That is the same as any other retail out there. And, you know, I might have spent my entire career as a buyer, and that is what I do, right? That is a big function of it all, is making the math work. And a few years ago, I was getting a ride from a relative of mine and their partner, and he started mansplaining to me. I mean, I was like at this point, like, I don’t know, 10, 12 years into being a buyer, He said to me, you know that when you go into a store and buy something, the price you pay for it isn’t the price the store paid for it. And I was like, oh my God, do you know what I do for a living? But that is the reality of it, right? That is how business works. And here’s the thing. I’ll tell you as a buyer, you’re always trying to get the price right. You have to hit a certain margin because like that’s what your, you know, your company wants you to do. And part of that is so that they can pay everybody’s salaries and keep the business running, but it’s also so that rich people can get rich. Fine. But you have to find this is like the art of it is that you can’t just arbitrarily price things higher than their value is and people are gonna come and buy it. That’s not gonna how it’s gonna work. The market sort of dictates the pricing to a certain extent. Even right now with eggs being like ten dollars or whatever.They’re able to sell at ten dollars because people are paying ten dollars for eggs. If people said that is way too much, which many of us have, I’m just not gonna eat it eggs for a while and everybody did that, then the farmers who are selling these eggs would have to lower the price to sell the eggs, right? And so if people are buying stuff off of these sale racks and then reselling it for a higher price, either one, people are going to buy it and that’s that, or two, people are not going to buy it and that’s that also. Like this is just like, it’s like creating conspiracy where there’s not conspiracy.
Alex:
And again, they ended up on the sale rack in the first place because they weren’t desirable. They didn’t sell at full price. There’s likely an overstock of those items to begin with. So even if someone does buy up the whole rack, there could be an entire other dozen racks in the back or at the store in the next tow nover of that same item, dozens and dozens and dozens of them at that same price. It’s just so interesting that this anti-reseller discourse, people seem to have specifically latched on to like the bad people within this specific industry, when it’s not really something that you see in other industries as often, like, you know, I don’t see someone being like, oh, I had a really horrible, mean sixth grade teacher, so like, teachers are evil. Like, that’s just weird. Like, that’s a weird mentality, you know what I mean? Or like, you go into a restaurant, you have a bad experience with a server, and so you’re like, I don’t like servers.
That’s just like, that’s, it doesn’t make any sense. That’s just not how that works. so many comments of people being like, people on this app are ripping people off and these resellers are selling stuff at crazy prices or someone told me that something was this brand and it wasn’t or they sent it to me and it was stained. Like that, those are just bad people. That’s not a reseller problem.
Amanda:
And like the whole thing with the pricing, here’s the deal. If you price it too high and no one buys it, then you have to bring the price down. If perhaps the price is not too high if people are buying it. Also, just gonna put this out there. If you’re taking the stance that you don’t want middle-class or wealthier people in thrift stores, let them buy stuff at a higher price online if that’s what they wanna do.
Alex:
That’s such another funny thing that I’ve heard, “people are selling dirty old t-shirts for $400.”And I’m like, if someone can afford to buy a dirty old t-shirt for $400, why are you worried about them? If people are actually successfully selling crusty shirts for $400, like the type of person that can afford to do that is probably fine. If you have that much extra money to be spending on who knows what, then like I’m really not that concerned about you, you’re probably okay.
Amanda:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and also the thing we need to also touch on here is that this idea that resellers are listing at these wildly inflated prices. Let’s talk about what a reseller does. They find the product, which takes a really long time. They clean and repair it. They photograph it, style it, list it, measure it. All lots and lots of work, right? This is why if you go on thredUp, none of the measurements or anything make any sense because it is just too much work. that big companies can’t get it right and make money. So there’s a lot of work involved. Also, I cannot emphasize enough what you are paying for is a service, which is someone,
Alex:
Yep.
Amanda:
I’m gonna tell you, for all my friends who, back in 2005 who complained about eBay, like ruining thrift stores, I was ecstatic because I was like, now I can find the things that I’ve dreamed of are that are perfect me or that are exactly my aesthetic that I can’t find here in my local thrift stores and all I need to is click a button and you know what I will pay extra for that because I wouldn’t get to see this stuff in real life. I would never find this on my own out in the wild. Like especially around 2010 I went through a really big like I’m Stevie Nicks phase and I’m gonna tell you where I was living in Philadelphia ,we are not finding a lot of Stevie Nicks clothes at the thrift store so I was like. click, I will pay you $30 for that thing even though. Yeah, maybe at a thrift store. I could have found it for five bucks. I would have never found it, right?
Alex:
Again, in looking through thousands of items, finding that one thing, like the chances of that happening are just not there. And I also find it so interesting that so many of these comments that I see online are like, I just think it’s ridiculous when someone buys a coat at the thrift store and sells it for 100 bucks, finds pants at the thrift store and sells it for $40, $50. Like the prices that are typically being listed in these arguments are actually not high in terms of the real value of high quality clothing.
Amanda:
I know.
Alex:
And I feel like a lot of these comments are coming from younger people, who’s again, concept of the value of clothing has been so warped because they’ve grown up in a generation where fast fashion is the norm. And there’s so many people now who I think have just grown up with this mentality and this idea that clothing should be five, 10, $15.
Amanda:
totally.
Alex:
When the reality is like that, that’s not okay. New clothing should never cost that little. And instead, we should be focusing on people being able to make money to afford clothing that is made ethically and responsibly.
Like clothing should cost more and we should all be making more money so that we can afford clothing that costs more
Amanda:
Absolutely.
I mean, it’s that same argument that people will get like riled up about about raising the minimum wage Well, there’ll be like well, why should someone making cheeseburgers make as much money as a teacher? And I’m like, you’re right. They both deserve a huge raise Teachers should be making a lot more money in the first place. So should people who cook our food. It’s a win for everyone
Alex:
Absolutely.
Amanda:
Yeah, it’s a similar thing. So I have some quotes here from resellers who are talking about pricing and whatnot.
Quote from Chloe, @findzbychloe:
“I think people have a hard time accepting that others should be paid for their time & labor. We want things right now for as cheap as possible so it’s easy to overlook the fact that someone is catering to you, I suppose. I source 4-6 days a week for no less than 4 hours a day. I’ve hit 8-10 hour sourcing days before. You’re gross, sweaty, stinky, and have dead grandma germs up your nose (lol) it’s not an easy job. The gas, time, energy, labor, snacks/meals to keep us going, shipping supplies, shipping itself, freebies, markets, etc. ALL goes into the value of what we do. At the end of the day, some girl on her story feeling beautiful in a one of a kind dress I took 4 hours to dig for, makes it all worth it.”
Quote from Tamara:
“I am also appalled at the capitalist urge which drives madness into the resale world. It saddens me how items are bought up just to flip at a higher price. My personal code of honor is only to buy what I will be responsible for in the life of that product. I only resell items I personally value. When I find something wonderful at a thrift sale, I don’t buy the whole lot. I leave some for others too. I’d love to see people be less selfish and halt their hoarding. We can all learn to appreciate every belonging we possess and leave some pickings for other folk to find.”
Amanda:
I suppose there are people who go out there and just grab everything willy nilly, but there are also rotten people, like we said, everywhere you go in different industries, in any way of life and any community and any movement, you know. And so, yeah, there are going to be people who go in there and like Supermarket sweep the thing and are rude.
Alex:
I mean, I’ve heard the same happening to it like at estate sales and stuff of people like, you know, rushing in and like grabbing every single piece of clothing and then like running over the corner and then like sorting through it after they’ve taken everything from everyone else and whatever. Again, that’s not resellers. That is people being disrespectful. It’s people being selfish. It’s just individuals acting badly. And I think it’s super unfair to use those people as a way to vilify. massive industry of people.
Amanda:
I know, I know, I mean, it’s, it, yeah. I think we probably have broken this down enough, but I just think it’s really important to de-caricature the view of resellers. Once again, I just, I cannot believe the amount of vitriol that is being directed towards people who all they do is sell secondhand stuff. Like, can I tell you all the other horrible things that are happening in the world? You know?
Amanda:
I just want to tell you the thing that really touched me most of all is that I realized there’s this really strong and beautiful community that is built out of all the people doing this work who have befriended one another. Like you said, you know, like Christine is a friend of yours who’ve never met. Resale creates a community and it brings together predominantly women and non-binary people who would be disconnected otherwise. And I just, I think it’s beautiful.
Alex:
I have had this conversation a lot with friends of mine about how difficult it is to make friends in adulthood. It’s hard to meet people and you know, I live in New York City, I’m a bartender. So I’m by no means living a life that is short of social interaction. I’m around other people a lot. And even then it can be very hard to connect with people on a deeper level. It can be hard to develop intimacy with people. Being part of the vintage community here in New York has just opened up an entire world of friendships for me. I’ve met so many people who, you know, some of the people I’ve met are no longer even reselling anymore and I was just happy to be able to connect with them while they were. I meet so many amazing people when I do pop-ups and markets. I’ve connected with so many people online that, you know, don’t live anywhere near me and I’ve been able to become friends with them through this space and I’m so grateful for it.
Amanda:
Yeah, yeah, I think it, I think that goes into some other things I know you wanted to say about this. So let’s like transition right into that because what you and I are seeing happening around us is sort of the antithesis of this other thing that is at the core of the vilification of resellers.
Alex:
Yes, so you know, you and I have really embedded ourselves into this beautiful community. You have managed to actually build and create community through Clotheshzorse. I’ve connected with so many people through selling vintage, whether that be other sellers or like my customers who are now also friends of mine. And it all feels so warm and supportive and it’s so weird to think that there’s this other dark side of it.
As I see a lot of these angry comments, angry videos, etc. I have spent a lot of time recently thinking about what is it about this specific topic that is so triggering for people?
People are very, very angry at resellers. Like they’re very upset. People like death threats level upset. And so I’ve just really been trying to like to dig into this idea of what is it specifically about this that is so upsetting. to people. And I think I’ve touched on a couple of core ideas of why I think this is like really hitting this emotional trigger for people. So I think one big reason is something that we have already touched on, which is just the overall changes to the secondhand market, especially in thrift stores.
And you know, this brings us back to the very beginning of our conversation about how again, this is also cyclical. And it’s so funny because this is what our parents and our grandparents were like, “back in my day when I was young” and yet we end up falling into that same trap. And so, you know, I understand that it’s very, it’s, you know, a lot of people have a long history of thrifting, they have spent their life relying on thrift stores, especially people who grow up low income. And so, you know, I understand that it does feel justifiable to be upset that things are changing in a way that feels out of your control. However, these changes to all of these reasons that we just discussed. And a lot of those issues feel so intangible and difficult to solve. And so, you know, getting angry at corporations or fast fashion or, you know, the textile waste stream, like I just, it can feel like screaming into the void. And this is something that you’ve touched on so often, Clotheshorse, that it’s really easy to get caught up in this feeling of being hopeless and not having any solutions And so I think that, you know, it’s a lot of displaced anger and it’s a lot of people feeling like if I Come at this one individual person if I leave this mean comment It’s like a way of venting and it’s a way of making me feel like I’m like doing something or making a difference
It doesn’t solve the problem. I don’t think that it’s stopping people from reselling, I think it’s making people continue doing what they’re doing but then feeling bad about it. And like, is that the solution? Does that like, I just really like to know for people who leave these mean comments, like is that actually what you want? Does that feel helpful and productive to have people continue doing what they’re doing for their livelihood or because it’s their passion and to just then feel guilt about it? Like that just feels so icky.
Amanda:
A few years ago on The Department, we did an episode about trolling as a trend because it really took off in 2020. Like when everybody was home alone, obviously feeling terrified and frantic, right? And the psychologists who have written about this say that when people are being horrible to someone, a stranger on the internet, it feels like a repercussion-less way to get your bad feelings out. And I think it’s really important for everyone to take a moment and recognize that there are repercussions. And I know all of you who are listening to this have had situations in which someone really upset you on social media and you felt upset about it for days, months. Man, I could tell you stories all day about really, really unpleasant messages I have received from people while working on Clotheshorse that keep me awake at night, that scare me, or make me feel horrible about myself. There are real-life repercussions to behaving that way. They’re repercussions. They’re not positive impacts. So if you think that you are somehow making the world more equitable by just sending a reseller death threats or telling them they are monsters, not only are you not doing anything positive for the world, you’re actually having a really negative impact on a human being.
Alex:
Yeah, and I think that this actually touches perfectly on the next reason that I think that this has picked up so much steam recently Is if you look at where a lot of this Hatred is being directed a lot of these specific content creators and resellers that are like receiving the largest brunt of a lot of this um, it really boils down to misogyny and the patriarchy. I feel like in this conversation one of the terms that has the most latched onto is “depop girlies.” I see so many comments saying, you know, it’s the depop girlies or we hate the depop girlies, whatever, whatever. And, you know, depop is very clearly associated with Gen Z. It’s seen as being like the younger resale app. Girlies is very clearly a gendered term. So when you say depop girlies, whether or not you mean it, you’re talking about young women.
And so, you know, this really ties into something spoken about at length in the podcast in which we have long examples in our culture of devaluing interests and work that’s perceived as being for women. So jobs that are women’s work, quote unquote, homemaking, childcare, garment work, sex work, fiber arts, these things are perceived as requiring less skill, they’re less important, they’re less deserving of higher wages or recognition. And this also ties into, because again, not only resale like a career and a job for people, but it’s also a passion and in many ways almost an art form for people who, you know, love clothing and fashion and vintage. And again, art forms and entertainment or hobbies that are associated with women are considered less serious, less deserving of respect or less valuable, you know, whether that be pop music or reality TV or fashion or makeup. We’ve pointed out that this has been around for such a long time and until more recently it was overwhelmingly a male industry.
Amanda:
That is so important to call out. I was actually talking about that with Christine last night. I said, you know, even in the 90s and the early aughts, the people I knew who, like in Portland specifically, who were kind of running the vintage scene there were all men.
Alex:
Yes. And if you look at a lot of the longer, more established sellers within the community, especially when you’re at like flea markets, if you go to like rag houses and like different, you know, companies that most of them are being run and managed by men, they’ve been in the industry for a very long time. And so I don’t think that it is a coincidence at all that as this industry opens up and allows in more women, more non binary people, or other marginalized communities that you’re seeing this increase in like shame and anger directed towards the people participating. And it’s so interesting because you’re seeing so much of the conversation happening on social media. And on social media, you know, there’s obviously biases baked into these platforms. And so the sellers that are most likely to have a large audience and be pushed by algorithms to be women who are young, thin, conventionally attractive. And a lot of times those things are now being associated with resale as a whole because that’s what people are seeing.
So just because you see young, thin, white women on TikTok or Instagram, that doesn’t necessarily mean that represents the whole of what the resale industry looks like. And so I think, again, it’s so easy for people to fall into these patterns of misogyny. And a lot of it, unfortunately, is internalized misogyny. misogyny coming from other women. And it’s now created this idea that resale is something that young, cute, privileged girls are doing. And it makes it for whatever reason easier for people to dismiss it as something that’s not deserving of value or that it’s okay to shame and talk down on.
Amanda:
I think I have had multiple conversations in the past few weeks with different resellers, many of whom have been doing it for well more than a decade. Talking about how there is even if we go onto social media and we look at the male resellers, there are far fewer of them at this point. But then, if we go onto their Instagram feeds and we look at the kind of comments they’re getting, versus the women who are selling. It is night and day.
Go onto a male reseller’s page and it’s like, you’re the GOAT. Brands are copying you because you’re so good. And stuff like that. And then you go onto a woman’s page and it’s like, you’re a monster.
Alex:
You’re stealing from poor people/
Amanda:
I do think, listen, no matter what your gender is, a lot of us have internalized misogyny that we need to unpack.
Alex:
Yeah, absolutely.
Alex:
And so I think that that definitely has played into a big part of the current conversation that’s happening, particularly on social media. And I feel like, again, this latching on to this Depop girlie thing. I keep seeing depop girlies. And it’s just, I don’t think that it’s a coincidence that we’ve decided to make villains out of young women in this circumstance, which as we’ve clearly pointed out throughout this episode, that the villains here. It’s the systems, it’s the corporations, it’s our culture and our society. It’s so much bigger than like individual people.
Amanda:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what’s great about our culture, and I mean, this is the most deeply sarcastic way ever, is that we’ve really made a proud, a proud tradition generation after generation out of villainizing young women, for their sexuality, for how they dress, what their bodies are like, the choices they make, and now, you know, reselling, but also listening to Taylor Swift or liking reality television or, you know, wearing skinny jeans. I have no idea. people don’t wear skinny jeans anymore.
Anyway, just always picking apart what they like. I mean, I remember it was very fashionable like two years ago to dismiss interest in true crime. And it was like, oh, interesting, because like that’s a predominantly female audience. Good job, guys.
Alex:
Yeah, it’s very interesting and unsurprising,
I think, that we’ve seen this specific targeted shift towards blaming young women in the industry for all of these other big major societal issues.
Another reason that I think this is so triggering for people is that it sucks to be bad at things.
It doesn’t feel good. No one likes to be bad at stuff. to try and do something and not be great at it. And I think that there are a lot of people who go into the thrift store and they leave empty-handed and they feel bad about it. And, you know, again, I think this is exacerbated by this increased content that you’re seeing online around resale. There are so many accounts and so many content creators that you see finding all of this amazing stuff. And so every time you get online, you see these, again, young women or like look at all this amazing stuff I found and then you try and you don’t find anything, then like you naturally feel left out. You feel inadequate. You’re like, what’s going on here? Why am I not able to find all this great stuff that other people are finding? And instead of acknowledging that, you know, there are so many other factors at play here, whether it be maybe you’re just not in a good location, you know, maybe the person that is shopping is like in a different place than you or they’re going to different sources than you are, but also like, is a skill and it’s much easier to blame other people and just be like well I didn’t find anything because the resellers already took it or to give up completely and just take a defeatist attitude of being like well I could have gone into the thrift store and found all that cool stuff but I’m not gonna do it because I’m a good person unlike you
Amanda:
Yeah, I mean, like once again, the irony of this whole thing is that I have been hearing this kind of statement my entire adult life. And 20 years ago, it was because people were reselling on eBay and they ruined thrift shopping and they took all the good stuff. Now, if you heard someone say eBay, they’d probably be like, what did you travel through time? But that was the thing then, or it was like, all these vintage sellers who sell it like the flea are stealing all the good stuff. And now we’ve just shifted into like, it’s people selling on Depop. None of this is real.
Alex:
I mean, and it’s so funny because I feel like I see a lot of this sentiment of like, you know, people diminishing the skill and the labor of reselling, being like, well, anyone could do that. And I find it very similar to the people who go to a museum and they stand in front of like a Pollock or a Rothko and they’re like, anyone could do that. I could have made that. And it’s like, okay, could anyone put paint on a canvas? Yeah, absolutely. Can you do it in a way that’s worth millions of dollars and then gets hung up in the MoMA? I don’t know, you tell me. You know, if becoming successful in a field, whether it be artists or reselling, if it’s so easy and you can, everyone’s making bank doing it, then like, why aren’t, why aren’t you doing it?
I feel like people are using this false moral high ground to justify the fact that they are unable or unwilling to do this work themselves.
It’s not easy. It does take skill and not everyone will be good at it. And honestly, that’s okay. If you try thrifting or if you used to be really good at thrifting and you now find it much more difficult to find stuff because of all the reasons that we’ve discussed before And you feel super sad and you feel left out Then you have even more reason to be supporting resellers Like instead of sitting around feeling like bummed out like I suck at thrifting. I can’t find anything blah blah blah blah blah blah just pay people for the labor pay people who have the skill and You just spend a little bit more money and then you can have all the cool stuff too. We can all have it There’s enough cool stuff to go around
Amanda:
Yeah, I mean, this is a term I use often when describing this feeling that people are having and it’s sour grapes, right? It’s that feeling of like, why did it go so badly for me? I’m kind of jealous. But I’ve never gone thrifting and not found anything and been like, oh, it’s someone else’s fault. I’ve just been like, well, that’s the name of the game. It’s the luck of the draw in many ways because it’s uncontrollable what’s gonna show up there.
Alex:
It’s also so funny that like there are clearly like hundreds of thousands of resellers, right? You go on all these platforms and there’s like a million things that you could buy. And so like there, the resellers are taking all the stuff. There’s nothing left. And yet there’s more and more resellers that have more and more stuff.
Amanda:
Yeah.
Alex:
So like, I just like, how does that make sense? If they’re taking all the stuff, where are the other resellers getting all of this stuff?
Amanda:
Why isn’t the thrift store empty?
Alex:
Yeah. Like, oh, that reseller took all the good stuff. But then the reseller that posts their great haul tomorrow. What, how is that, how does that work? I’d like someone to explain that.
Amanda:
It’s just a testimony to how much we’ve all been over consuming clothes for a really long time that we didn’t run out of stuff if we’re able to support this many resellers and the thrift stores aren’t empty and the vintage stores aren’t empty and the Buffalo Exchange isn’t empty.
Alex:
Nowhere near being empty.
There is like, yeah. And so I think the last reason that this conversation is so sensitive for people and so upsetting is that I think a lot of people just feel really sad about the state of the world right now. I feel like a lot of people feel really sad about their lives and their circumstances. Which, you know, I get that. It makes a lot of sense. There is a lot of hardship in the world. Things have been very difficult for people for a lot of different reasons, especially in recent years. And I think that when people are struggling and you’re seeing all these injustices, it can be really difficult to see other people thriving. It can be difficult to see people taking risks that you might not be able to take yourself. Because that’s the thing is, resale is a huge risk.
It is an industry that’s a risk. Choosing to do it is a risk. You are buying something that you might never sell. You’re also spending a lot of time and money on labor that you may not be compensated for. And a lot of people don’t have the time or the money or the ability to take these risks. And so I think that a lot of times when someone sees someone out there that chooses to set on this path, they create their own business, they set their own hours, like it makes them feel really sad because they don’t feel like those options are available to them. And those feelings are really valid, but those are cultural issues, those are issues in our society, they’re not because of the person who has chosen to take that path that you know isn’t open to you or that you can’t take. And I feel like so much of the external perception of retail is also again, comes down to what you see on social media, you’re getting the fun parts, you’re getting people showing like the cool fun awesome stuff They’re not showing you like the crusty tissue they pulled out of the pocket. You know, like you’re very rarely seeing like the grimy bathwater from soaking those pants for a week.
You’re just seeing the cool pants at the end of that process. And so you see people who are so happy and they’re so excited and they’re talking about how much they love the job that they’ve chosen for themselves. They’re sharing their personal success, their success finding stuff at the store. here when you feel exploited, you don’t like your job, you’re struggling to get by. Like you said, it’s, you know, it’s sour grapes, but it’s also just, again, there are so many issues in our society now, and it feels sometimes like putting that on someone else makes you feel better, I guess, in a way that doesn’t solve any problems.
Amanda:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, listen, it’s totally normal and understandable to feel frustrated, anxious, angry, afraid, hopeless, fearful, all of these things. I mean, I feel all of these feelings every day, you know?
Alex:
Yeah.
Amanda:
And I just think, I don’t just think, I know that channeling them into being angry at resellers isn’t going to make any of those feelings better.
Alex:
No. And also, like we’ve said many times in this conversation, like a lot of these resellers are also struggling with the same things you may not be, they’re just not discussing it. You know, they’re not discussing it on their resale platform because it’s not part of their brand. But like, you know, I am a bartender. I’ve been bartending for almost 13 years now. I can’t say I particularly enjoy doing it anymore. I am really, really tired of hospitality, physically and emotionally, I find it so taxing now and just like difficult to do. And I don’t make enough money reselling to stop bartending. So that’s just like the reality of my situation, which is fine. Like I do feel very lucky to, you know, be able to manage multiple jobs and to be able to do this for myself. But I just feel like so much of that can weigh down on you and make That’s what you see online.
Amanda:
Yeah, I mean, it’s hard, right? The grass is always greener, as they say. And there have definitely been times. I mean, while I am good at what I have done as a career, I mostly hate it, and it’s really stressful. It doesn’t bring me a lot of happiness or satisfaction. And there have been so many times over the years I’ve looked at my friends who have their own boutiques or are vintage sellers or just traveling around doing stuff that seems so much cooler than what I’m doing. And I have felt that pain, that sort that recognition of the unfairness of life. But I’m not gonna be like blowing them up with angry texts, you know?
Alex:
No, it’s and again, it’s so normal and so valid to feel that way. And I understand the reasons why people have these feelings, but I just wish that people could take a step back. And when they do find themselves feeling that way, maybe just reassessing like, is there a way that I can look at this reseller and feel inspired by them?
Amanda:
Yeah.
Alex:
If I can, you know, feed off of that happy, excited energy and like use that to my benefit and think of ways that I can somehow channel that energy or you know, I just feel like there are more productive ways than telling the reseller that you hope that they get hit by a bus.
Amanda:
Why does it always have to go to death threats, people? Can we just say hi?
Alex:
I don’t know and even not just death threats but like people that are like you’re stealing from people and you’re I don’t know it just I just that’s just not the way forward it’s not productive for anyone and again these feelings make a lot of sense and I get where they’re coming from but I just wish that there was a healthier way that we could all manage them. I mean, it just doesn’t make, it doesn’t make things better. It doesn’t change anything.
Alex:
Yeah. One thing I did forget to say at the beginning of our conversation when we were talking about like why I wanted to do this episode, I was thinking about how you have probably covered every topic that we talked about today in Clotheshorse already, but like sprinkled throughout so many different episodes. And I was like, man, you know, Amanda’s really tackled most of this. You’ve been so thorough, especially when it comes to secondhand style, waste, et cetera. And I was like, you know, it would be really great to create these episodes so that everything was kind of cohesive and in one place. And I don’t think that the closed horse listener is the anti reseller angry commenter. Like I feel like there’s not really overlap there. So my hope with this is that these episodes will be a resource that could maybe be handed on to someone. learn and listen.
So if there is someone who, you know, has a friend who expresses these sentiments and is open to maybe having their mind changed, that they could listen to this and have it all in one place and kind of really understand what’s going on here. And also I think that there are a lot of people who are very supportive of resellers, you know, are upset about this conversation that’s happening, but maybe don’t have a way to articulate or don’t have for a lot of these common misconceptions that you see. So it’s just, you know, this is a way for us to productively and cohesively kind of give people the information moving forward so that when this conversation does come up with friends, acquaintances, coworkers, you know, and someone says, resellers taking all the good stuff, someone can actually be like, actually, here’s some more information, you know, here’s some resources if you want to read more. And then here are also some awesome episodes of Clotheshorse you can listen to. want to really get into it.
Amanda:
I really hope that that’s what happens because I will say I receive messages on the daily that are like, why are thrift store prices higher? Why is it this? Why is it that? I’m like, oh my God guys, I covered this so many times. So hopefully, because we still do get a lot of people in the community who are like, I hate podcasts. So I’m never gonna listen to your podcast. Maybe this will be like the one time they can do it. Yeah, I hope so too because I do think It’s kind of like a wave of misinformation about this and it’s like all the other misinformation that we need to battle in this world. This one’s kind of the easiest one.
Alex:
Yeah, it’s easy and I also just think that like, it seems silly, I guess, to a lot of people are unimportant because they’re not necessarily affected by it. You know, it’s easy to leave these angry comments and be like, whatever. But again, this is people’s livelihood, this people’s lives, it’s their passions, it’s their careers. And it is something that I think is a fundamental aspect of a circular economy. It’s a fundamental aspect of keeping clothing, of saving valuable garments from being destroyed. And I think resellers are doing an enormous service and they’re providing a labor that’s really important, like in the grand scheme of things. And I think that it’s just something that really needs to be protected and it deserves respect. You know, whether or not it’s something that I was personally doing, it is something that I think just deserves a lot more respect than it’s getting.
Amanda:
Like, this is the future of the circular economy. Our planet, our people, our future, future generations will lie on us shifting to a more circular economy. What we really need is like three times as many resellers.
Alex:
Yes, more resellers, more people shopping
Amanda:
So for me, it’s like anything I can do to help that grow is so important to me. I’ve never been a reseller. I don’t plan on being a reseller, but I see how important this is to our future.
Alex:
Yeah, I just don’t think there’s no way to move forward without more of it. We can’t just continue to consume new stuff. It just isn’t possible.
And yeah, we just need to keep moving and yeah, more resellers, more people shopping at the thrift store for themselves and for others. Let’s spread the wealth and save all of the good stuff that’s already out there because there is so much of it.
Thank you THANK YOU Thank you to Alex for literally spending more than 3 and a half hours talking to me about this topic. It was hard for us to stop, but neither of us had stood up or used a bathroom for that entire time. We were just too engrossed in our conversation! If you aren’t following Alex on instagram yet, now is a good time to finally do that, where you’ll find her as @wear_st.evens. And you check out her store at wearstevens.com
I hope that Alex comes back again to continue to discuss all things secondhand, because she is an amazing and always well-prepared guest. And of course, an all around incredible person! Thank you, Alex!!!
In all of the conversations we have been having about thrift stores, secondhand resale, and the sheer volume of clothing in this world, we have barely touched on one other factor that is having a major impact on our planet, its people, and…thrift stores!
The fashion industry is producing about 45 billion garments each year that will NEVER be sold. It produces 150 billion garments each year in total, and 30% of them will never be sold. So you do the math there (don’t worry, I already did it for you)…30% of 150 billion is…45 billion. And when you dissect that 45 billion number, it becomes even scarier. Like, I can’t even begin to imagine what 45 billion garments piled up looks like. It’s a mountain for sure, but how high is it? And furthermore, there are slightly less than 8 billion people on the planet right now. There’s just too much clothing. I The industry is knowingly churning out all of this stuff that is extreme-near-future garbage!
I actually read a quote this week in a Financial Times article from early in the pandemic called ”What will happen to all the unsold clothes?” One of the people quoted in the article is Fionnuala Shannon, the executive director of Dressed for Success and she said, “There’s enough fashion in the world to clothe six generations of the world’s population; it’s a disgrace.” I’ve been thinking of the statement over and over again since I read it, because it IS a disgrace!
This overproduction (which btw, the industry totally plans for and the business model makes it work) is caused by several factors:
Buying into the wrong trends and the wrong product.
The fast fashion model relies on selling you as much stuff, as often as possible.
This means showing you a steady stream of new stuff.
In order to do that, they have to buy into every single trend—no matter how unwearable, short-lived, or ultimately unpopular. This results in a lot of stuff that no one really wants.
It’s all coming too fast!
Now that all of the big retailers/brands are selling you stuff at the lowest prices and bombarding you with dealz dealz, dealz, they are trying to remain competitive by bringing you stuff as fast as possible.
They want to be the first one to offer you the trend. This means everything comes faster than ever.
This means less fittings (so the fit isn’t great), less sample reviews (meaning there is less time to get the details right), and the fast turnaround means that no one gets to fine tune and optimize the final product.
All of this rushing leads to lots of less-than-great stuff finding its way on to the website and into the store. And no one wants to buy it.
The amount of time companies are allotting to sell this stuff is shrinking. They need to move it in and out as fast as possible to make room for the next round of super trendy product.
Items go to markdown (on sale) about 6 weeks after they arrive in stores/online. Bestselling styles will stay at full price longer.
Delusional sales plans that excite shareholders and fund executive bonuses.
Some basic retail math: the higher the sales plan, the more product the company needs to produce to sell.
Leadership will create super high, most likely unachievable sales plans. Buying and design creates enough product to hit those sales plans.
When the company misses the sales plan, there’s a ton of extra inventory that goes unsold.
Retailers view their product as disposable.
We know that nothing is disposable, but in their view, it’s super cheap, so having to destroy it is really NBD for them.
They don’t view it as an important loss. And they need to keep product from building up in their stores and warehouses because there is always a ton more on the way!
Companies aren’t looking at these items as the result of hard, skilled work. They don’t see the value in the natural resources used to make all of these unwanted clothes.
The industry deals with this overproduction…wait let’s just call it what it really is: egregious waste. The industry deals with this in various ways. One is just straight up sending it to incinerator or landfill. These items never even make their way to the stores or onto the website. The general public never knows about it.
The other two ways are actually having a major impact on the thrift industry (and what we see for sale in thrift stores).
First, retailers often opt to mark down their undesirable product to the lowest price, in an escalating series of discounts until customers buy it, often impulsively. These are the items most likely to make their way to the donation bins the fastest, with the least amount of use. And yes, these are the items that many thrift stores prioritize getting on to the racks because they are on trend and in near perfect condition.
Second, retailers are donating this unsold inventory to thrift stores. It saves them the cost of disposal and they get a sweet write off. It’s a win for them! Thrift stores (of course) give this stuff priority space on the floor because it is LITERALLY brand new.
What does this mean? Good secondhand stuff never makes its way on to the sales floor. Instead it is baled up and either shredded or added to the global secondhand garment trade.
If you’re unhappy with what you are finding in the thrift stores these days, once again, one of the major causes is the fast fashion-ification of the way fashion does business.
So yet another dysfunctional piece of the system, right?
We have spent the last three episodes dismantling the myths around resale, thrift stores, and the state of secondhand. Resellers have been blamed for issues around access, price, and availability. During this series, we learned that many of the problems are actually larger systemic issues.
These problems are fixable, but they will require change from shoppers, the people who donate, resellers, retailers, and the thrift system.
Well, I told you that this series is now having a fourth installment, so let me tell you more about that and how you can help!
In that episode, I will be asking, “How can the secondhand system be more fair and accessible, while also less wasteful? How can it be more equitable for everyone involved?”
Yep, these are not easy questions to answer, but I’ve definitely learned a lot over the past month, and I have some thoughts. But…I also want to hear your thoughts on these big questions!:
★ How do thrift store prices return to a more accessible level?
★ How do the selling platforms make resale more financially equitable for resellers?
★ How do we get more people shopping secondhand while also ensuring access and affordability for lower income shoppers?
★ How do we ensure that less clothing ends up in landfills all over the world?
★ How do we make shopping secondhand more accessible to people who want to participate but are limited by the privileges of time, access, geography, size, etc?
If you want to share your opinion/additional thoughts on the subjects we cover in each episode, feel free to email, whether it’s a typed out message or an audio recording: [email protected]
Thumbprint is Detroit’s only fair trade marketplace, located in the historic Eastern Market. Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics! We also carry a curated assortment of sustainable/natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life and for yourself! Browse our online store at thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on instagram @thumbprintdetroit.
Picnicwear: a slow fashion brand, ethically made by hand from vintage and deadstock materials – most notably, vintage towels! Founder, Dani, has worked in the industry as a fashion designer for over 10 years, but started Picnicwear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry’s shortcomings. Picnicwear recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their clothing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in NYC. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above NYC minimum wage. Picnicwear offers minimal waste and maximum authenticity: Future Vintage over future garbage.
Shift Clothing, out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon, with a focus on natural fibers, simple hardworking designs, and putting fat people first. Discover more at shiftwheeler.com
High Energy Vintage is a fun and funky vintage shop located in Somerville, MA, just a few minutes away from downtown Boston. They offer a highly curated selection of bright and colorful clothing and accessories from the 1940s-1990s for people of all genders. Husband-and-wife duo Wiley & Jessamy handpick each piece for quality and style, with a focus on pieces that transcend trends and will find a home in your closet for many years to come! In addition to clothing, the shop also features a large selection of vintage vinyl and old school video games. Find them on instagram @ highenergyvintage, online at highenergyvintage.com, and at markets in and around Boston.
St. Evens is an NYC-based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you’ll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. New vintage is released every Thursday at wearStEvens.com, with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram at @wear_st.evens.
Deco Denim is a startup based out of San Francisco, selling clothing and accessories that are sustainable, gender fluid, size inclusive and high quality–made to last for years to come. Deco Denim is trying to change the way you think about buying clothes. Founder Sarah Mattes wants to empower people to ask important questions like, “Where was this made? Was this garment made ethically? Is this fabric made of plastic? Can this garment be upcycled and if not, can it be recycled?” Signup at decodenim.com to receive $20 off your first purchase. They promise not to spam you and send out no more than 3 emails a month, with 2 of them surrounding education or a personal note from the Founder. Find them on Instagram as @deco.denim.
The Pewter Thimble Is there a little bit of Italy in your soul? Are you an enthusiast of pre-loved decor and accessories? Bring vintage Italian style — and history — into your space with The Pewter Thimble (@thepewterthimble). We source useful and beautiful things, and mend them where needed. We also find gorgeous illustrations, and make them print-worthy. Tarot cards, tea towels and handpicked treasures, available to you from the comfort of your own home. Responsibly sourced from across Rome, lovingly renewed by fairly paid artists and artisans, with something for every budget. Discover more at thepewterthimble.com
Blank Cass, or Blanket Coats by Cass, is focused on restoring, renewing, and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles. By embodying and transferring the love, craft, and energy that is original to each vintage textile into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for and mend what we have and make it last. Blank Cass lives on Instagram @blank_cass and a website will be launched soon at blankcass.com.
Gabriela Antonas is a visual artist, an upcycler, and a fashion designer, but Gabriela Antonas is also a feminist micro business with radical ideals. She’s the one woman band, trying to help you understand, why slow fashion is what the earth needs. If you find your self in New Orleans, LA, you may buy her ready-to-wear upcycled garments in person at the store “Slow Down” (2855 Magazine St). Slow Down Nola only sells vintage and slow fashion from local designers. Gabriela’s garments are guaranteed to be in stock in person, but they also have a website so you may support this women owned and run business from wherever you are! If you are interested in Gabriela making a one of a kind garment for you DM her on Instagram at @slowfashiongabriela to book a consultation.
Vagabond Vintage DTLV is a vintage clothing, accessories & decor reselling business based in Downtown Las Vegas. Not only do we sell in Las Vegas, but we are also located throughout resale markets in San Francisco as well as at a curated boutique called Lux and Ivy located in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jessica, the founder & owner of Vagabond Vintage DTLV, recently opened the first IRL location located in the Arts District of Downtown Las Vegas on August 5th. The shop has a strong emphasis on 60s & 70s garments, single stitch tee shirts & dreamy loungewear. Follow them on instagram, @vagabondvintage.dtlv and keep an eye out for their website coming fall of 2022.
Country Feedback is a mom & pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country, and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares. Do you have used records you want to sell? Country Feedback wants to buy them! Find us on Instagram @countryfeedbackvintageandvinyl or head downeast and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family-friendly record shop in the country!
Located in Whistler, Canada, Velvet Underground is a “velvet jungle” full of vintage and second-hand clothes, plants, a vegan cafe and lots of rad products from other small sustainable businesses. Our mission is to create a brand and community dedicated to promoting self-expression, as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet. Find us on Instagram @shop_velvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com
Selina Sanders, a social impact brand that specializes in up-cycled clothing, using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials: from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts. Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one’s closet for generations to come. Maximum Style; Minimal Carbon Footprint.
Salt Hats: purveyors of truly sustainable hats. Hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan.
Republica Unicornia Yarns: Hand-Dyed Yarn and notions for the color-obsessed. Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by Head Yarn Wench Kathleen. Get ready for rainbows with a side of Giving A Damn! Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small-batch, responsibly sourced, hand-dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted, or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republica_unicornia_yarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com.
Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl, and home items in a wide range of styles and price points. If it’s ethical and legal, we try to find a new home for it! Vintage style with progressive values. Find us on Instagram at @CuteLittleRuin.